Proving Limit Rigorously











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Find the limit



$$large lim_{xto infty}(ln x)^{frac{20}x}$$



I understood that as x approached infinity, $20/x$ approached 0. This would mean that the limit would tend toward $1$. However, $ln x$ also approaches infinity as $x$ approaches infinity. Thus, I suspected the answer to be $1$ (and it indeed is the answer), however I feel like this answer is not sufficiently rigorous. How could I rigorously prove $1$ as the answer? Any ideas/hints would be appreciated.



Note: I am a highschooler and my teachers often tell me to take these answers in faith. Thus, I may not understand any fancy notations that may usually be used in solving limit.



Thanks!










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  • 2




    High-school aside, in general you should learn to use asymptotic analysis to analyze such things, because it is not only systematic but also gives you much more information than L'Hopital, and is completely rigorous. Even if the limit does not exist, asymptotic analysis will tell you what it behaves like, without guess-work involved.
    – user21820
    Nov 26 at 8:21















up vote
4
down vote

favorite












Find the limit



$$large lim_{xto infty}(ln x)^{frac{20}x}$$



I understood that as x approached infinity, $20/x$ approached 0. This would mean that the limit would tend toward $1$. However, $ln x$ also approaches infinity as $x$ approaches infinity. Thus, I suspected the answer to be $1$ (and it indeed is the answer), however I feel like this answer is not sufficiently rigorous. How could I rigorously prove $1$ as the answer? Any ideas/hints would be appreciated.



Note: I am a highschooler and my teachers often tell me to take these answers in faith. Thus, I may not understand any fancy notations that may usually be used in solving limit.



Thanks!










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 2




    High-school aside, in general you should learn to use asymptotic analysis to analyze such things, because it is not only systematic but also gives you much more information than L'Hopital, and is completely rigorous. Even if the limit does not exist, asymptotic analysis will tell you what it behaves like, without guess-work involved.
    – user21820
    Nov 26 at 8:21













up vote
4
down vote

favorite









up vote
4
down vote

favorite











Find the limit



$$large lim_{xto infty}(ln x)^{frac{20}x}$$



I understood that as x approached infinity, $20/x$ approached 0. This would mean that the limit would tend toward $1$. However, $ln x$ also approaches infinity as $x$ approaches infinity. Thus, I suspected the answer to be $1$ (and it indeed is the answer), however I feel like this answer is not sufficiently rigorous. How could I rigorously prove $1$ as the answer? Any ideas/hints would be appreciated.



Note: I am a highschooler and my teachers often tell me to take these answers in faith. Thus, I may not understand any fancy notations that may usually be used in solving limit.



Thanks!










share|cite|improve this question















Find the limit



$$large lim_{xto infty}(ln x)^{frac{20}x}$$



I understood that as x approached infinity, $20/x$ approached 0. This would mean that the limit would tend toward $1$. However, $ln x$ also approaches infinity as $x$ approaches infinity. Thus, I suspected the answer to be $1$ (and it indeed is the answer), however I feel like this answer is not sufficiently rigorous. How could I rigorously prove $1$ as the answer? Any ideas/hints would be appreciated.



Note: I am a highschooler and my teachers often tell me to take these answers in faith. Thus, I may not understand any fancy notations that may usually be used in solving limit.



Thanks!







calculus limits






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edited Nov 26 at 0:16









gimusi

91.7k84495




91.7k84495










asked Nov 26 at 0:02









Dude156

523215




523215








  • 2




    High-school aside, in general you should learn to use asymptotic analysis to analyze such things, because it is not only systematic but also gives you much more information than L'Hopital, and is completely rigorous. Even if the limit does not exist, asymptotic analysis will tell you what it behaves like, without guess-work involved.
    – user21820
    Nov 26 at 8:21














  • 2




    High-school aside, in general you should learn to use asymptotic analysis to analyze such things, because it is not only systematic but also gives you much more information than L'Hopital, and is completely rigorous. Even if the limit does not exist, asymptotic analysis will tell you what it behaves like, without guess-work involved.
    – user21820
    Nov 26 at 8:21








2




2




High-school aside, in general you should learn to use asymptotic analysis to analyze such things, because it is not only systematic but also gives you much more information than L'Hopital, and is completely rigorous. Even if the limit does not exist, asymptotic analysis will tell you what it behaves like, without guess-work involved.
– user21820
Nov 26 at 8:21




High-school aside, in general you should learn to use asymptotic analysis to analyze such things, because it is not only systematic but also gives you much more information than L'Hopital, and is completely rigorous. Even if the limit does not exist, asymptotic analysis will tell you what it behaves like, without guess-work involved.
– user21820
Nov 26 at 8:21










4 Answers
4






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up vote
10
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accepted










The argument you use lacks the necessary rigour. With the same argument, you would conclude that $bigl(mathrm e^xbigr)^tfrac1xto 1$, yet $bigl(mathrm e^xbigr)^tfrac1x$ is Euler's number $mathrm e$!



The below solutions are fine. However, as a highschooler, you might want a rigourous proof that $frac{ln(ln x)}{x}$ tends to $0$ as $x$ tends to $infty$. Here's a sketch of a simple proof:
$$frac{ln(ln x)}{x}=underbrace{frac{ln(ln x)}{ln x}}_{begin{matrix}downarrow\0\text{(setting }u=ln x)end{matrix}}!!underbrace{frac{ln x}{x}}_{begin{matrix}downarrow\0end{matrix}} $$



Edit: A proof that $lim_{xtoinfty}dfrac{ln x}x=0$.



For any $t>1$, $:sqrt t <t$, so $dfrac 1t<dfrac 1{sqrt t}$, therefore
$$frac{ln x}x=frac1xint_1^x frac 1t,mathrm dt lefrac1xint_1^x frac 1{sqrt t},mathrm dt=frac1x(2sqrt x-2)<2frac1{sqrt x},$$
and the latter tends to $0$.






share|cite|improve this answer























  • Thanks for the reply Bernard! Can you please follow through with that proof? I just used L Hospitals, but I'd be interested to see an alternate method.
    – Dude156
    Nov 26 at 1:02










  • For the limit at infinity of $ frac{ln x}x$? Please see if the proof I've added is fine for you.
    – Bernard
    Nov 26 at 1:23


















up vote
8
down vote













It suffices to use the inequalities $1le log(x)le x$ for $xge e$. Since the exponential function is increasing, we see that



$$1le left( log(x) right)^{20/x}le x^{20/x}$$



Application of the squeeze theorem yields the coveted limit



$$lim_{xtoinfty}left( log(x)right)^{20/x} =1 $$






share|cite|improve this answer




























    up vote
    4
    down vote













    We can use that



    $$large (ln x)^{frac{20}x}= e^{left[20frac{ln(ln x)}{x}right]}$$



    and since by standard limits



    $$frac{ln x}xto 0$$



    we also have



    $$frac{ln (ln x)}xle frac{ln x}xto 0$$



    A standard way to prove the standard limits let $y=e^xto infty$ then



    $$frac{ln x}x=frac{ln (e^y)}{e^y}=frac y{e^y}to 0$$



    indeed eventually $e^yge y^2$ and then



    $$frac y{e^y}le frac{y}{y^2}=frac1yto 0$$



    As an alternative we can also proceed by



    $$large (ln x)^{frac{20}x}=left[(ln x)^{1/ln x}right]^{frac{20ln x}x}to 1$$



    indeed




    • $(ln x)^{1/ln x}to 1$

    • $frac{20ln x}xto 0$


    and the first one can be proved by



    $$(ln x)^{1/ln x}=e^{frac{ln (ln x)}{ln x}}to 1$$



    since by $ln x=yto infty$



    $$frac{ln (ln x)}{ln x}=frac{ln y}{y}to 0$$






    share|cite|improve this answer






























      up vote
      3
      down vote













      First compute the limit of the logarithm of the expression. Indeed,
      $$
      frac{20}{x}times ln(ln x)to 0
      $$

      as $xto infty$. You can see this intuitively since $x$ grows much faster than $ln(ln x)$ or you can use L'Hospital's rule. In any case
      $$
      expleft(frac{20}{x}times ln(ln x)right)to 1
      $$

      as $xto infty$






      share|cite|improve this answer























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        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

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        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes








        up vote
        10
        down vote



        accepted










        The argument you use lacks the necessary rigour. With the same argument, you would conclude that $bigl(mathrm e^xbigr)^tfrac1xto 1$, yet $bigl(mathrm e^xbigr)^tfrac1x$ is Euler's number $mathrm e$!



        The below solutions are fine. However, as a highschooler, you might want a rigourous proof that $frac{ln(ln x)}{x}$ tends to $0$ as $x$ tends to $infty$. Here's a sketch of a simple proof:
        $$frac{ln(ln x)}{x}=underbrace{frac{ln(ln x)}{ln x}}_{begin{matrix}downarrow\0\text{(setting }u=ln x)end{matrix}}!!underbrace{frac{ln x}{x}}_{begin{matrix}downarrow\0end{matrix}} $$



        Edit: A proof that $lim_{xtoinfty}dfrac{ln x}x=0$.



        For any $t>1$, $:sqrt t <t$, so $dfrac 1t<dfrac 1{sqrt t}$, therefore
        $$frac{ln x}x=frac1xint_1^x frac 1t,mathrm dt lefrac1xint_1^x frac 1{sqrt t},mathrm dt=frac1x(2sqrt x-2)<2frac1{sqrt x},$$
        and the latter tends to $0$.






        share|cite|improve this answer























        • Thanks for the reply Bernard! Can you please follow through with that proof? I just used L Hospitals, but I'd be interested to see an alternate method.
          – Dude156
          Nov 26 at 1:02










        • For the limit at infinity of $ frac{ln x}x$? Please see if the proof I've added is fine for you.
          – Bernard
          Nov 26 at 1:23















        up vote
        10
        down vote



        accepted










        The argument you use lacks the necessary rigour. With the same argument, you would conclude that $bigl(mathrm e^xbigr)^tfrac1xto 1$, yet $bigl(mathrm e^xbigr)^tfrac1x$ is Euler's number $mathrm e$!



        The below solutions are fine. However, as a highschooler, you might want a rigourous proof that $frac{ln(ln x)}{x}$ tends to $0$ as $x$ tends to $infty$. Here's a sketch of a simple proof:
        $$frac{ln(ln x)}{x}=underbrace{frac{ln(ln x)}{ln x}}_{begin{matrix}downarrow\0\text{(setting }u=ln x)end{matrix}}!!underbrace{frac{ln x}{x}}_{begin{matrix}downarrow\0end{matrix}} $$



        Edit: A proof that $lim_{xtoinfty}dfrac{ln x}x=0$.



        For any $t>1$, $:sqrt t <t$, so $dfrac 1t<dfrac 1{sqrt t}$, therefore
        $$frac{ln x}x=frac1xint_1^x frac 1t,mathrm dt lefrac1xint_1^x frac 1{sqrt t},mathrm dt=frac1x(2sqrt x-2)<2frac1{sqrt x},$$
        and the latter tends to $0$.






        share|cite|improve this answer























        • Thanks for the reply Bernard! Can you please follow through with that proof? I just used L Hospitals, but I'd be interested to see an alternate method.
          – Dude156
          Nov 26 at 1:02










        • For the limit at infinity of $ frac{ln x}x$? Please see if the proof I've added is fine for you.
          – Bernard
          Nov 26 at 1:23













        up vote
        10
        down vote



        accepted







        up vote
        10
        down vote



        accepted






        The argument you use lacks the necessary rigour. With the same argument, you would conclude that $bigl(mathrm e^xbigr)^tfrac1xto 1$, yet $bigl(mathrm e^xbigr)^tfrac1x$ is Euler's number $mathrm e$!



        The below solutions are fine. However, as a highschooler, you might want a rigourous proof that $frac{ln(ln x)}{x}$ tends to $0$ as $x$ tends to $infty$. Here's a sketch of a simple proof:
        $$frac{ln(ln x)}{x}=underbrace{frac{ln(ln x)}{ln x}}_{begin{matrix}downarrow\0\text{(setting }u=ln x)end{matrix}}!!underbrace{frac{ln x}{x}}_{begin{matrix}downarrow\0end{matrix}} $$



        Edit: A proof that $lim_{xtoinfty}dfrac{ln x}x=0$.



        For any $t>1$, $:sqrt t <t$, so $dfrac 1t<dfrac 1{sqrt t}$, therefore
        $$frac{ln x}x=frac1xint_1^x frac 1t,mathrm dt lefrac1xint_1^x frac 1{sqrt t},mathrm dt=frac1x(2sqrt x-2)<2frac1{sqrt x},$$
        and the latter tends to $0$.






        share|cite|improve this answer














        The argument you use lacks the necessary rigour. With the same argument, you would conclude that $bigl(mathrm e^xbigr)^tfrac1xto 1$, yet $bigl(mathrm e^xbigr)^tfrac1x$ is Euler's number $mathrm e$!



        The below solutions are fine. However, as a highschooler, you might want a rigourous proof that $frac{ln(ln x)}{x}$ tends to $0$ as $x$ tends to $infty$. Here's a sketch of a simple proof:
        $$frac{ln(ln x)}{x}=underbrace{frac{ln(ln x)}{ln x}}_{begin{matrix}downarrow\0\text{(setting }u=ln x)end{matrix}}!!underbrace{frac{ln x}{x}}_{begin{matrix}downarrow\0end{matrix}} $$



        Edit: A proof that $lim_{xtoinfty}dfrac{ln x}x=0$.



        For any $t>1$, $:sqrt t <t$, so $dfrac 1t<dfrac 1{sqrt t}$, therefore
        $$frac{ln x}x=frac1xint_1^x frac 1t,mathrm dt lefrac1xint_1^x frac 1{sqrt t},mathrm dt=frac1x(2sqrt x-2)<2frac1{sqrt x},$$
        and the latter tends to $0$.







        share|cite|improve this answer














        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer








        edited Nov 26 at 1:22

























        answered Nov 26 at 0:31









        Bernard

        117k637109




        117k637109












        • Thanks for the reply Bernard! Can you please follow through with that proof? I just used L Hospitals, but I'd be interested to see an alternate method.
          – Dude156
          Nov 26 at 1:02










        • For the limit at infinity of $ frac{ln x}x$? Please see if the proof I've added is fine for you.
          – Bernard
          Nov 26 at 1:23


















        • Thanks for the reply Bernard! Can you please follow through with that proof? I just used L Hospitals, but I'd be interested to see an alternate method.
          – Dude156
          Nov 26 at 1:02










        • For the limit at infinity of $ frac{ln x}x$? Please see if the proof I've added is fine for you.
          – Bernard
          Nov 26 at 1:23
















        Thanks for the reply Bernard! Can you please follow through with that proof? I just used L Hospitals, but I'd be interested to see an alternate method.
        – Dude156
        Nov 26 at 1:02




        Thanks for the reply Bernard! Can you please follow through with that proof? I just used L Hospitals, but I'd be interested to see an alternate method.
        – Dude156
        Nov 26 at 1:02












        For the limit at infinity of $ frac{ln x}x$? Please see if the proof I've added is fine for you.
        – Bernard
        Nov 26 at 1:23




        For the limit at infinity of $ frac{ln x}x$? Please see if the proof I've added is fine for you.
        – Bernard
        Nov 26 at 1:23










        up vote
        8
        down vote













        It suffices to use the inequalities $1le log(x)le x$ for $xge e$. Since the exponential function is increasing, we see that



        $$1le left( log(x) right)^{20/x}le x^{20/x}$$



        Application of the squeeze theorem yields the coveted limit



        $$lim_{xtoinfty}left( log(x)right)^{20/x} =1 $$






        share|cite|improve this answer

























          up vote
          8
          down vote













          It suffices to use the inequalities $1le log(x)le x$ for $xge e$. Since the exponential function is increasing, we see that



          $$1le left( log(x) right)^{20/x}le x^{20/x}$$



          Application of the squeeze theorem yields the coveted limit



          $$lim_{xtoinfty}left( log(x)right)^{20/x} =1 $$






          share|cite|improve this answer























            up vote
            8
            down vote










            up vote
            8
            down vote









            It suffices to use the inequalities $1le log(x)le x$ for $xge e$. Since the exponential function is increasing, we see that



            $$1le left( log(x) right)^{20/x}le x^{20/x}$$



            Application of the squeeze theorem yields the coveted limit



            $$lim_{xtoinfty}left( log(x)right)^{20/x} =1 $$






            share|cite|improve this answer












            It suffices to use the inequalities $1le log(x)le x$ for $xge e$. Since the exponential function is increasing, we see that



            $$1le left( log(x) right)^{20/x}le x^{20/x}$$



            Application of the squeeze theorem yields the coveted limit



            $$lim_{xtoinfty}left( log(x)right)^{20/x} =1 $$







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered Nov 26 at 2:32









            Mark Viola

            129k1273170




            129k1273170






















                up vote
                4
                down vote













                We can use that



                $$large (ln x)^{frac{20}x}= e^{left[20frac{ln(ln x)}{x}right]}$$



                and since by standard limits



                $$frac{ln x}xto 0$$



                we also have



                $$frac{ln (ln x)}xle frac{ln x}xto 0$$



                A standard way to prove the standard limits let $y=e^xto infty$ then



                $$frac{ln x}x=frac{ln (e^y)}{e^y}=frac y{e^y}to 0$$



                indeed eventually $e^yge y^2$ and then



                $$frac y{e^y}le frac{y}{y^2}=frac1yto 0$$



                As an alternative we can also proceed by



                $$large (ln x)^{frac{20}x}=left[(ln x)^{1/ln x}right]^{frac{20ln x}x}to 1$$



                indeed




                • $(ln x)^{1/ln x}to 1$

                • $frac{20ln x}xto 0$


                and the first one can be proved by



                $$(ln x)^{1/ln x}=e^{frac{ln (ln x)}{ln x}}to 1$$



                since by $ln x=yto infty$



                $$frac{ln (ln x)}{ln x}=frac{ln y}{y}to 0$$






                share|cite|improve this answer



























                  up vote
                  4
                  down vote













                  We can use that



                  $$large (ln x)^{frac{20}x}= e^{left[20frac{ln(ln x)}{x}right]}$$



                  and since by standard limits



                  $$frac{ln x}xto 0$$



                  we also have



                  $$frac{ln (ln x)}xle frac{ln x}xto 0$$



                  A standard way to prove the standard limits let $y=e^xto infty$ then



                  $$frac{ln x}x=frac{ln (e^y)}{e^y}=frac y{e^y}to 0$$



                  indeed eventually $e^yge y^2$ and then



                  $$frac y{e^y}le frac{y}{y^2}=frac1yto 0$$



                  As an alternative we can also proceed by



                  $$large (ln x)^{frac{20}x}=left[(ln x)^{1/ln x}right]^{frac{20ln x}x}to 1$$



                  indeed




                  • $(ln x)^{1/ln x}to 1$

                  • $frac{20ln x}xto 0$


                  and the first one can be proved by



                  $$(ln x)^{1/ln x}=e^{frac{ln (ln x)}{ln x}}to 1$$



                  since by $ln x=yto infty$



                  $$frac{ln (ln x)}{ln x}=frac{ln y}{y}to 0$$






                  share|cite|improve this answer

























                    up vote
                    4
                    down vote










                    up vote
                    4
                    down vote









                    We can use that



                    $$large (ln x)^{frac{20}x}= e^{left[20frac{ln(ln x)}{x}right]}$$



                    and since by standard limits



                    $$frac{ln x}xto 0$$



                    we also have



                    $$frac{ln (ln x)}xle frac{ln x}xto 0$$



                    A standard way to prove the standard limits let $y=e^xto infty$ then



                    $$frac{ln x}x=frac{ln (e^y)}{e^y}=frac y{e^y}to 0$$



                    indeed eventually $e^yge y^2$ and then



                    $$frac y{e^y}le frac{y}{y^2}=frac1yto 0$$



                    As an alternative we can also proceed by



                    $$large (ln x)^{frac{20}x}=left[(ln x)^{1/ln x}right]^{frac{20ln x}x}to 1$$



                    indeed




                    • $(ln x)^{1/ln x}to 1$

                    • $frac{20ln x}xto 0$


                    and the first one can be proved by



                    $$(ln x)^{1/ln x}=e^{frac{ln (ln x)}{ln x}}to 1$$



                    since by $ln x=yto infty$



                    $$frac{ln (ln x)}{ln x}=frac{ln y}{y}to 0$$






                    share|cite|improve this answer














                    We can use that



                    $$large (ln x)^{frac{20}x}= e^{left[20frac{ln(ln x)}{x}right]}$$



                    and since by standard limits



                    $$frac{ln x}xto 0$$



                    we also have



                    $$frac{ln (ln x)}xle frac{ln x}xto 0$$



                    A standard way to prove the standard limits let $y=e^xto infty$ then



                    $$frac{ln x}x=frac{ln (e^y)}{e^y}=frac y{e^y}to 0$$



                    indeed eventually $e^yge y^2$ and then



                    $$frac y{e^y}le frac{y}{y^2}=frac1yto 0$$



                    As an alternative we can also proceed by



                    $$large (ln x)^{frac{20}x}=left[(ln x)^{1/ln x}right]^{frac{20ln x}x}to 1$$



                    indeed




                    • $(ln x)^{1/ln x}to 1$

                    • $frac{20ln x}xto 0$


                    and the first one can be proved by



                    $$(ln x)^{1/ln x}=e^{frac{ln (ln x)}{ln x}}to 1$$



                    since by $ln x=yto infty$



                    $$frac{ln (ln x)}{ln x}=frac{ln y}{y}to 0$$







                    share|cite|improve this answer














                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer








                    edited Nov 26 at 6:19

























                    answered Nov 26 at 0:04









                    gimusi

                    91.7k84495




                    91.7k84495






















                        up vote
                        3
                        down vote













                        First compute the limit of the logarithm of the expression. Indeed,
                        $$
                        frac{20}{x}times ln(ln x)to 0
                        $$

                        as $xto infty$. You can see this intuitively since $x$ grows much faster than $ln(ln x)$ or you can use L'Hospital's rule. In any case
                        $$
                        expleft(frac{20}{x}times ln(ln x)right)to 1
                        $$

                        as $xto infty$






                        share|cite|improve this answer



























                          up vote
                          3
                          down vote













                          First compute the limit of the logarithm of the expression. Indeed,
                          $$
                          frac{20}{x}times ln(ln x)to 0
                          $$

                          as $xto infty$. You can see this intuitively since $x$ grows much faster than $ln(ln x)$ or you can use L'Hospital's rule. In any case
                          $$
                          expleft(frac{20}{x}times ln(ln x)right)to 1
                          $$

                          as $xto infty$






                          share|cite|improve this answer

























                            up vote
                            3
                            down vote










                            up vote
                            3
                            down vote









                            First compute the limit of the logarithm of the expression. Indeed,
                            $$
                            frac{20}{x}times ln(ln x)to 0
                            $$

                            as $xto infty$. You can see this intuitively since $x$ grows much faster than $ln(ln x)$ or you can use L'Hospital's rule. In any case
                            $$
                            expleft(frac{20}{x}times ln(ln x)right)to 1
                            $$

                            as $xto infty$






                            share|cite|improve this answer














                            First compute the limit of the logarithm of the expression. Indeed,
                            $$
                            frac{20}{x}times ln(ln x)to 0
                            $$

                            as $xto infty$. You can see this intuitively since $x$ grows much faster than $ln(ln x)$ or you can use L'Hospital's rule. In any case
                            $$
                            expleft(frac{20}{x}times ln(ln x)right)to 1
                            $$

                            as $xto infty$







                            share|cite|improve this answer














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                            edited Nov 26 at 0:14









                            Bernard

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                            answered Nov 26 at 0:08









                            Foobaz John

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                            20.3k41250






























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