Can the empty set be the image of a function on $mathbb{N}$? [duplicate]











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  • Why is there no function with a nonempty domain and an empty range?

    5 answers




I cannot find any example of function $f:mathbb{N}rightarrowmathbb{N}$ of which we can say that
$$
f(mathbb{N})=emptyset
$$

Does there exists any?










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Nov 26 at 15:22


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.















  • If $D_f=emptyset$
    – hamam_Abdallah
    Nov 25 at 18:33






  • 2




    By definition, the set $f(mathbb{N})$ contains each $f(n)$ for $nin mathbb{N}$.
    – anomaly
    Nov 26 at 0:46










  • You say "an empty set" but note that there is only one empty set: "the empty set."
    – David Richerby
    Nov 26 at 13:18










  • Not sure that this counts as a duplicate. The other question was a technical question of why the axiom of specification fails to claim "$Fsubset Atimes emptyset$ so that $F$ is a function" exists and required a far more technical and obtuse than this rather practical question. That's my two cents. But I'm certainly not going to vote to reopen.
    – fleablood
    Nov 26 at 16:45















up vote
5
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This question already has an answer here:




  • Why is there no function with a nonempty domain and an empty range?

    5 answers




I cannot find any example of function $f:mathbb{N}rightarrowmathbb{N}$ of which we can say that
$$
f(mathbb{N})=emptyset
$$

Does there exists any?










share|cite|improve this question















marked as duplicate by Asaf Karagila elementary-set-theory
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Nov 26 at 15:22


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.















  • If $D_f=emptyset$
    – hamam_Abdallah
    Nov 25 at 18:33






  • 2




    By definition, the set $f(mathbb{N})$ contains each $f(n)$ for $nin mathbb{N}$.
    – anomaly
    Nov 26 at 0:46










  • You say "an empty set" but note that there is only one empty set: "the empty set."
    – David Richerby
    Nov 26 at 13:18










  • Not sure that this counts as a duplicate. The other question was a technical question of why the axiom of specification fails to claim "$Fsubset Atimes emptyset$ so that $F$ is a function" exists and required a far more technical and obtuse than this rather practical question. That's my two cents. But I'm certainly not going to vote to reopen.
    – fleablood
    Nov 26 at 16:45













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5
down vote

favorite









up vote
5
down vote

favorite












This question already has an answer here:




  • Why is there no function with a nonempty domain and an empty range?

    5 answers




I cannot find any example of function $f:mathbb{N}rightarrowmathbb{N}$ of which we can say that
$$
f(mathbb{N})=emptyset
$$

Does there exists any?










share|cite|improve this question
















This question already has an answer here:




  • Why is there no function with a nonempty domain and an empty range?

    5 answers




I cannot find any example of function $f:mathbb{N}rightarrowmathbb{N}$ of which we can say that
$$
f(mathbb{N})=emptyset
$$

Does there exists any?





This question already has an answer here:




  • Why is there no function with a nonempty domain and an empty range?

    5 answers








functions elementary-set-theory






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edited Nov 26 at 15:02









user21820

38.2k541151




38.2k541151










asked Nov 25 at 18:32









avan1235

1236




1236




marked as duplicate by Asaf Karagila elementary-set-theory
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Nov 26 at 15:22


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.






marked as duplicate by Asaf Karagila elementary-set-theory
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Nov 26 at 15:22


This question has been asked before and already has an answer. If those answers do not fully address your question, please ask a new question.














  • If $D_f=emptyset$
    – hamam_Abdallah
    Nov 25 at 18:33






  • 2




    By definition, the set $f(mathbb{N})$ contains each $f(n)$ for $nin mathbb{N}$.
    – anomaly
    Nov 26 at 0:46










  • You say "an empty set" but note that there is only one empty set: "the empty set."
    – David Richerby
    Nov 26 at 13:18










  • Not sure that this counts as a duplicate. The other question was a technical question of why the axiom of specification fails to claim "$Fsubset Atimes emptyset$ so that $F$ is a function" exists and required a far more technical and obtuse than this rather practical question. That's my two cents. But I'm certainly not going to vote to reopen.
    – fleablood
    Nov 26 at 16:45


















  • If $D_f=emptyset$
    – hamam_Abdallah
    Nov 25 at 18:33






  • 2




    By definition, the set $f(mathbb{N})$ contains each $f(n)$ for $nin mathbb{N}$.
    – anomaly
    Nov 26 at 0:46










  • You say "an empty set" but note that there is only one empty set: "the empty set."
    – David Richerby
    Nov 26 at 13:18










  • Not sure that this counts as a duplicate. The other question was a technical question of why the axiom of specification fails to claim "$Fsubset Atimes emptyset$ so that $F$ is a function" exists and required a far more technical and obtuse than this rather practical question. That's my two cents. But I'm certainly not going to vote to reopen.
    – fleablood
    Nov 26 at 16:45
















If $D_f=emptyset$
– hamam_Abdallah
Nov 25 at 18:33




If $D_f=emptyset$
– hamam_Abdallah
Nov 25 at 18:33




2




2




By definition, the set $f(mathbb{N})$ contains each $f(n)$ for $nin mathbb{N}$.
– anomaly
Nov 26 at 0:46




By definition, the set $f(mathbb{N})$ contains each $f(n)$ for $nin mathbb{N}$.
– anomaly
Nov 26 at 0:46












You say "an empty set" but note that there is only one empty set: "the empty set."
– David Richerby
Nov 26 at 13:18




You say "an empty set" but note that there is only one empty set: "the empty set."
– David Richerby
Nov 26 at 13:18












Not sure that this counts as a duplicate. The other question was a technical question of why the axiom of specification fails to claim "$Fsubset Atimes emptyset$ so that $F$ is a function" exists and required a far more technical and obtuse than this rather practical question. That's my two cents. But I'm certainly not going to vote to reopen.
– fleablood
Nov 26 at 16:45




Not sure that this counts as a duplicate. The other question was a technical question of why the axiom of specification fails to claim "$Fsubset Atimes emptyset$ so that $F$ is a function" exists and required a far more technical and obtuse than this rather practical question. That's my two cents. But I'm certainly not going to vote to reopen.
– fleablood
Nov 26 at 16:45










5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
15
down vote













No. By definition of $f:A to B$, then for every $ain A$ then $f(a)$ must exist and $f(a) in B$. So if $A$ is not empty then $f(A)$ is not empty (although it can have a few as only one element.)



However it is possible that $A$ is empty in which case $f(A)$ is (obviously) also empty.



$f: emptyset to B$ is the empty function in this case.



=====



Or to put it really simple $f(1)$ has to be in the image so the image can't be empty.






share|cite|improve this answer























  • You should say "No if the domain is non-empty.". As you've clearly proven in the last two lines the answer is "Yes".
    – Ister
    Nov 26 at 9:19






  • 1




    The OP states that the domain is $mathbb{N}$...
    – Vincent
    Nov 26 at 9:53










  • @Ister "You should say 'No if the domain is non-empty.'" Do you really think it needs to be proven that $Bbb N$ is non-empty?
    – fleablood
    Nov 26 at 16:21












  • @Vincent was your comment addressed at me or Ister. If at me, well, ... so? I've shown it is false for any non-empty domain. $Bbb N$ is a non-empty domain. So the answer to the OP's question is "no".
    – fleablood
    Nov 26 at 16:23










  • @fleablood the comment was directed at Ister.
    – Vincent
    Nov 26 at 16:25




















up vote
9
down vote













There is no such function: in particular, the only function whose image is the empty set is the empty function, whose domain is also the empty set. In particular, $f(mathbb{N})$ cannot be the empty set, because contains $f(1)$.






share|cite|improve this answer




























    up vote
    7
    down vote













    Well, the definition state that for any x natural number there exists a uniquely determined natural number y such as f(x)=y. Since f(N) has no elements, it means that there doesn’t exist any y such as f(x)=y. Contradiction! So such functions do not exist :) The image of a function has at least one element as Df has at least 1 element.






    share|cite|improve this answer




























      up vote
      3
      down vote













      Since for every $ain mathbb{N}$ the $f(a)$ is also in $mathbb{N}$ we see that $f(mathbb{N})ne emptyset $ so there is no such function.






      share|cite|improve this answer




























        up vote
        1
        down vote













        This case is not possible since, by definition of range of a function, $f(a)$ should belong to the codomain for each $a$ in the domain.






        share|cite|improve this answer






























          5 Answers
          5






          active

          oldest

          votes








          5 Answers
          5






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes








          up vote
          15
          down vote













          No. By definition of $f:A to B$, then for every $ain A$ then $f(a)$ must exist and $f(a) in B$. So if $A$ is not empty then $f(A)$ is not empty (although it can have a few as only one element.)



          However it is possible that $A$ is empty in which case $f(A)$ is (obviously) also empty.



          $f: emptyset to B$ is the empty function in this case.



          =====



          Or to put it really simple $f(1)$ has to be in the image so the image can't be empty.






          share|cite|improve this answer























          • You should say "No if the domain is non-empty.". As you've clearly proven in the last two lines the answer is "Yes".
            – Ister
            Nov 26 at 9:19






          • 1




            The OP states that the domain is $mathbb{N}$...
            – Vincent
            Nov 26 at 9:53










          • @Ister "You should say 'No if the domain is non-empty.'" Do you really think it needs to be proven that $Bbb N$ is non-empty?
            – fleablood
            Nov 26 at 16:21












          • @Vincent was your comment addressed at me or Ister. If at me, well, ... so? I've shown it is false for any non-empty domain. $Bbb N$ is a non-empty domain. So the answer to the OP's question is "no".
            – fleablood
            Nov 26 at 16:23










          • @fleablood the comment was directed at Ister.
            – Vincent
            Nov 26 at 16:25

















          up vote
          15
          down vote













          No. By definition of $f:A to B$, then for every $ain A$ then $f(a)$ must exist and $f(a) in B$. So if $A$ is not empty then $f(A)$ is not empty (although it can have a few as only one element.)



          However it is possible that $A$ is empty in which case $f(A)$ is (obviously) also empty.



          $f: emptyset to B$ is the empty function in this case.



          =====



          Or to put it really simple $f(1)$ has to be in the image so the image can't be empty.






          share|cite|improve this answer























          • You should say "No if the domain is non-empty.". As you've clearly proven in the last two lines the answer is "Yes".
            – Ister
            Nov 26 at 9:19






          • 1




            The OP states that the domain is $mathbb{N}$...
            – Vincent
            Nov 26 at 9:53










          • @Ister "You should say 'No if the domain is non-empty.'" Do you really think it needs to be proven that $Bbb N$ is non-empty?
            – fleablood
            Nov 26 at 16:21












          • @Vincent was your comment addressed at me or Ister. If at me, well, ... so? I've shown it is false for any non-empty domain. $Bbb N$ is a non-empty domain. So the answer to the OP's question is "no".
            – fleablood
            Nov 26 at 16:23










          • @fleablood the comment was directed at Ister.
            – Vincent
            Nov 26 at 16:25















          up vote
          15
          down vote










          up vote
          15
          down vote









          No. By definition of $f:A to B$, then for every $ain A$ then $f(a)$ must exist and $f(a) in B$. So if $A$ is not empty then $f(A)$ is not empty (although it can have a few as only one element.)



          However it is possible that $A$ is empty in which case $f(A)$ is (obviously) also empty.



          $f: emptyset to B$ is the empty function in this case.



          =====



          Or to put it really simple $f(1)$ has to be in the image so the image can't be empty.






          share|cite|improve this answer














          No. By definition of $f:A to B$, then for every $ain A$ then $f(a)$ must exist and $f(a) in B$. So if $A$ is not empty then $f(A)$ is not empty (although it can have a few as only one element.)



          However it is possible that $A$ is empty in which case $f(A)$ is (obviously) also empty.



          $f: emptyset to B$ is the empty function in this case.



          =====



          Or to put it really simple $f(1)$ has to be in the image so the image can't be empty.







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited Nov 26 at 22:19

























          answered Nov 25 at 18:42









          fleablood

          67.4k22684




          67.4k22684












          • You should say "No if the domain is non-empty.". As you've clearly proven in the last two lines the answer is "Yes".
            – Ister
            Nov 26 at 9:19






          • 1




            The OP states that the domain is $mathbb{N}$...
            – Vincent
            Nov 26 at 9:53










          • @Ister "You should say 'No if the domain is non-empty.'" Do you really think it needs to be proven that $Bbb N$ is non-empty?
            – fleablood
            Nov 26 at 16:21












          • @Vincent was your comment addressed at me or Ister. If at me, well, ... so? I've shown it is false for any non-empty domain. $Bbb N$ is a non-empty domain. So the answer to the OP's question is "no".
            – fleablood
            Nov 26 at 16:23










          • @fleablood the comment was directed at Ister.
            – Vincent
            Nov 26 at 16:25




















          • You should say "No if the domain is non-empty.". As you've clearly proven in the last two lines the answer is "Yes".
            – Ister
            Nov 26 at 9:19






          • 1




            The OP states that the domain is $mathbb{N}$...
            – Vincent
            Nov 26 at 9:53










          • @Ister "You should say 'No if the domain is non-empty.'" Do you really think it needs to be proven that $Bbb N$ is non-empty?
            – fleablood
            Nov 26 at 16:21












          • @Vincent was your comment addressed at me or Ister. If at me, well, ... so? I've shown it is false for any non-empty domain. $Bbb N$ is a non-empty domain. So the answer to the OP's question is "no".
            – fleablood
            Nov 26 at 16:23










          • @fleablood the comment was directed at Ister.
            – Vincent
            Nov 26 at 16:25


















          You should say "No if the domain is non-empty.". As you've clearly proven in the last two lines the answer is "Yes".
          – Ister
          Nov 26 at 9:19




          You should say "No if the domain is non-empty.". As you've clearly proven in the last two lines the answer is "Yes".
          – Ister
          Nov 26 at 9:19




          1




          1




          The OP states that the domain is $mathbb{N}$...
          – Vincent
          Nov 26 at 9:53




          The OP states that the domain is $mathbb{N}$...
          – Vincent
          Nov 26 at 9:53












          @Ister "You should say 'No if the domain is non-empty.'" Do you really think it needs to be proven that $Bbb N$ is non-empty?
          – fleablood
          Nov 26 at 16:21






          @Ister "You should say 'No if the domain is non-empty.'" Do you really think it needs to be proven that $Bbb N$ is non-empty?
          – fleablood
          Nov 26 at 16:21














          @Vincent was your comment addressed at me or Ister. If at me, well, ... so? I've shown it is false for any non-empty domain. $Bbb N$ is a non-empty domain. So the answer to the OP's question is "no".
          – fleablood
          Nov 26 at 16:23




          @Vincent was your comment addressed at me or Ister. If at me, well, ... so? I've shown it is false for any non-empty domain. $Bbb N$ is a non-empty domain. So the answer to the OP's question is "no".
          – fleablood
          Nov 26 at 16:23












          @fleablood the comment was directed at Ister.
          – Vincent
          Nov 26 at 16:25






          @fleablood the comment was directed at Ister.
          – Vincent
          Nov 26 at 16:25












          up vote
          9
          down vote













          There is no such function: in particular, the only function whose image is the empty set is the empty function, whose domain is also the empty set. In particular, $f(mathbb{N})$ cannot be the empty set, because contains $f(1)$.






          share|cite|improve this answer

























            up vote
            9
            down vote













            There is no such function: in particular, the only function whose image is the empty set is the empty function, whose domain is also the empty set. In particular, $f(mathbb{N})$ cannot be the empty set, because contains $f(1)$.






            share|cite|improve this answer























              up vote
              9
              down vote










              up vote
              9
              down vote









              There is no such function: in particular, the only function whose image is the empty set is the empty function, whose domain is also the empty set. In particular, $f(mathbb{N})$ cannot be the empty set, because contains $f(1)$.






              share|cite|improve this answer












              There is no such function: in particular, the only function whose image is the empty set is the empty function, whose domain is also the empty set. In particular, $f(mathbb{N})$ cannot be the empty set, because contains $f(1)$.







              share|cite|improve this answer












              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer










              answered Nov 25 at 18:36









              user3482749

              2,086414




              2,086414






















                  up vote
                  7
                  down vote













                  Well, the definition state that for any x natural number there exists a uniquely determined natural number y such as f(x)=y. Since f(N) has no elements, it means that there doesn’t exist any y such as f(x)=y. Contradiction! So such functions do not exist :) The image of a function has at least one element as Df has at least 1 element.






                  share|cite|improve this answer

























                    up vote
                    7
                    down vote













                    Well, the definition state that for any x natural number there exists a uniquely determined natural number y such as f(x)=y. Since f(N) has no elements, it means that there doesn’t exist any y such as f(x)=y. Contradiction! So such functions do not exist :) The image of a function has at least one element as Df has at least 1 element.






                    share|cite|improve this answer























                      up vote
                      7
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      7
                      down vote









                      Well, the definition state that for any x natural number there exists a uniquely determined natural number y such as f(x)=y. Since f(N) has no elements, it means that there doesn’t exist any y such as f(x)=y. Contradiction! So such functions do not exist :) The image of a function has at least one element as Df has at least 1 element.






                      share|cite|improve this answer












                      Well, the definition state that for any x natural number there exists a uniquely determined natural number y such as f(x)=y. Since f(N) has no elements, it means that there doesn’t exist any y such as f(x)=y. Contradiction! So such functions do not exist :) The image of a function has at least one element as Df has at least 1 element.







                      share|cite|improve this answer












                      share|cite|improve this answer



                      share|cite|improve this answer










                      answered Nov 25 at 18:39









                      furfur

                      854




                      854






















                          up vote
                          3
                          down vote













                          Since for every $ain mathbb{N}$ the $f(a)$ is also in $mathbb{N}$ we see that $f(mathbb{N})ne emptyset $ so there is no such function.






                          share|cite|improve this answer

























                            up vote
                            3
                            down vote













                            Since for every $ain mathbb{N}$ the $f(a)$ is also in $mathbb{N}$ we see that $f(mathbb{N})ne emptyset $ so there is no such function.






                            share|cite|improve this answer























                              up vote
                              3
                              down vote










                              up vote
                              3
                              down vote









                              Since for every $ain mathbb{N}$ the $f(a)$ is also in $mathbb{N}$ we see that $f(mathbb{N})ne emptyset $ so there is no such function.






                              share|cite|improve this answer












                              Since for every $ain mathbb{N}$ the $f(a)$ is also in $mathbb{N}$ we see that $f(mathbb{N})ne emptyset $ so there is no such function.







                              share|cite|improve this answer












                              share|cite|improve this answer



                              share|cite|improve this answer










                              answered Nov 25 at 18:34









                              greedoid

                              36.4k114592




                              36.4k114592






















                                  up vote
                                  1
                                  down vote













                                  This case is not possible since, by definition of range of a function, $f(a)$ should belong to the codomain for each $a$ in the domain.






                                  share|cite|improve this answer



























                                    up vote
                                    1
                                    down vote













                                    This case is not possible since, by definition of range of a function, $f(a)$ should belong to the codomain for each $a$ in the domain.






                                    share|cite|improve this answer

























                                      up vote
                                      1
                                      down vote










                                      up vote
                                      1
                                      down vote









                                      This case is not possible since, by definition of range of a function, $f(a)$ should belong to the codomain for each $a$ in the domain.






                                      share|cite|improve this answer














                                      This case is not possible since, by definition of range of a function, $f(a)$ should belong to the codomain for each $a$ in the domain.







                                      share|cite|improve this answer














                                      share|cite|improve this answer



                                      share|cite|improve this answer








                                      edited Nov 30 at 3:20









                                      Brahadeesh

                                      5,99442159




                                      5,99442159










                                      answered Nov 25 at 18:56









                                      MANI SHANKAR PANDEY

                                      313




                                      313















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