Can leaving the nozzle at 160 °C continuously on in between prints affect the viscosity of the prints?











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We're printing on a WASP 3MT pellet extruder with PLA. To save time, we're leaving the hotend at 160 °C between prints but realized that the print quality varies, from one print to the another, when using the same G-code file.



Could it be that leaving the temperature at 160 °C constantly creates more fluid PLA and therefore affects the following print?










share|improve this question
























  • Leaving the temp high for 5 minutes is one thing; for an hour is another. Can you be more specific?
    – Carl Witthoft
    Dec 12 at 18:49










  • Hey Frank , Your not very specific on what do you mean by print quality varying ? Could you describe what exactly is different every time ? is it dimensions or surface texture , layer height or something else ? . Other than a small clog in the extruder due to carbonising, there shouldn't really be much of a problem. PLA is quite robust that way.
    – Axel Fernandes
    Dec 12 at 19:30






  • 1




    While leaving the temp at 160 °C in between prints (an average of 30 mins between prints and sending prints that take about 15mins continuously for several hours) i am observing these in the following prints : 1. over-extrusion 2. A slight colour change from transparent to yellowish 3. bubbles in the PLA. We're doing tests on spatial printing. To allow the material to cool faster in mid-air we are printing at a lower temp. of 160°C.
    – Frank Quek
    Dec 12 at 22:33

















up vote
4
down vote

favorite












We're printing on a WASP 3MT pellet extruder with PLA. To save time, we're leaving the hotend at 160 °C between prints but realized that the print quality varies, from one print to the another, when using the same G-code file.



Could it be that leaving the temperature at 160 °C constantly creates more fluid PLA and therefore affects the following print?










share|improve this question
























  • Leaving the temp high for 5 minutes is one thing; for an hour is another. Can you be more specific?
    – Carl Witthoft
    Dec 12 at 18:49










  • Hey Frank , Your not very specific on what do you mean by print quality varying ? Could you describe what exactly is different every time ? is it dimensions or surface texture , layer height or something else ? . Other than a small clog in the extruder due to carbonising, there shouldn't really be much of a problem. PLA is quite robust that way.
    – Axel Fernandes
    Dec 12 at 19:30






  • 1




    While leaving the temp at 160 °C in between prints (an average of 30 mins between prints and sending prints that take about 15mins continuously for several hours) i am observing these in the following prints : 1. over-extrusion 2. A slight colour change from transparent to yellowish 3. bubbles in the PLA. We're doing tests on spatial printing. To allow the material to cool faster in mid-air we are printing at a lower temp. of 160°C.
    – Frank Quek
    Dec 12 at 22:33















up vote
4
down vote

favorite









up vote
4
down vote

favorite











We're printing on a WASP 3MT pellet extruder with PLA. To save time, we're leaving the hotend at 160 °C between prints but realized that the print quality varies, from one print to the another, when using the same G-code file.



Could it be that leaving the temperature at 160 °C constantly creates more fluid PLA and therefore affects the following print?










share|improve this question















We're printing on a WASP 3MT pellet extruder with PLA. To save time, we're leaving the hotend at 160 °C between prints but realized that the print quality varies, from one print to the another, when using the same G-code file.



Could it be that leaving the temperature at 160 °C constantly creates more fluid PLA and therefore affects the following print?







nozzle pellet-extruder delta-wasp-3mt






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Dec 12 at 15:54









Greenonline

3,21331044




3,21331044










asked Dec 12 at 13:07









Frank Quek

212




212












  • Leaving the temp high for 5 minutes is one thing; for an hour is another. Can you be more specific?
    – Carl Witthoft
    Dec 12 at 18:49










  • Hey Frank , Your not very specific on what do you mean by print quality varying ? Could you describe what exactly is different every time ? is it dimensions or surface texture , layer height or something else ? . Other than a small clog in the extruder due to carbonising, there shouldn't really be much of a problem. PLA is quite robust that way.
    – Axel Fernandes
    Dec 12 at 19:30






  • 1




    While leaving the temp at 160 °C in between prints (an average of 30 mins between prints and sending prints that take about 15mins continuously for several hours) i am observing these in the following prints : 1. over-extrusion 2. A slight colour change from transparent to yellowish 3. bubbles in the PLA. We're doing tests on spatial printing. To allow the material to cool faster in mid-air we are printing at a lower temp. of 160°C.
    – Frank Quek
    Dec 12 at 22:33




















  • Leaving the temp high for 5 minutes is one thing; for an hour is another. Can you be more specific?
    – Carl Witthoft
    Dec 12 at 18:49










  • Hey Frank , Your not very specific on what do you mean by print quality varying ? Could you describe what exactly is different every time ? is it dimensions or surface texture , layer height or something else ? . Other than a small clog in the extruder due to carbonising, there shouldn't really be much of a problem. PLA is quite robust that way.
    – Axel Fernandes
    Dec 12 at 19:30






  • 1




    While leaving the temp at 160 °C in between prints (an average of 30 mins between prints and sending prints that take about 15mins continuously for several hours) i am observing these in the following prints : 1. over-extrusion 2. A slight colour change from transparent to yellowish 3. bubbles in the PLA. We're doing tests on spatial printing. To allow the material to cool faster in mid-air we are printing at a lower temp. of 160°C.
    – Frank Quek
    Dec 12 at 22:33


















Leaving the temp high for 5 minutes is one thing; for an hour is another. Can you be more specific?
– Carl Witthoft
Dec 12 at 18:49




Leaving the temp high for 5 minutes is one thing; for an hour is another. Can you be more specific?
– Carl Witthoft
Dec 12 at 18:49












Hey Frank , Your not very specific on what do you mean by print quality varying ? Could you describe what exactly is different every time ? is it dimensions or surface texture , layer height or something else ? . Other than a small clog in the extruder due to carbonising, there shouldn't really be much of a problem. PLA is quite robust that way.
– Axel Fernandes
Dec 12 at 19:30




Hey Frank , Your not very specific on what do you mean by print quality varying ? Could you describe what exactly is different every time ? is it dimensions or surface texture , layer height or something else ? . Other than a small clog in the extruder due to carbonising, there shouldn't really be much of a problem. PLA is quite robust that way.
– Axel Fernandes
Dec 12 at 19:30




1




1




While leaving the temp at 160 °C in between prints (an average of 30 mins between prints and sending prints that take about 15mins continuously for several hours) i am observing these in the following prints : 1. over-extrusion 2. A slight colour change from transparent to yellowish 3. bubbles in the PLA. We're doing tests on spatial printing. To allow the material to cool faster in mid-air we are printing at a lower temp. of 160°C.
– Frank Quek
Dec 12 at 22:33






While leaving the temp at 160 °C in between prints (an average of 30 mins between prints and sending prints that take about 15mins continuously for several hours) i am observing these in the following prints : 1. over-extrusion 2. A slight colour change from transparent to yellowish 3. bubbles in the PLA. We're doing tests on spatial printing. To allow the material to cool faster in mid-air we are printing at a lower temp. of 160°C.
– Frank Quek
Dec 12 at 22:33












3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
5
down vote













PLA starts to change its properties at above its glass transition temperature of 60-65 °C, if stored there too long. Keeping it at 160°C, close to the melting temperature (173-178 °C) can degrade the material relatively rapidly. During an extrusion, this is usually mitigated by filling fresh material into the melt while the older material gets extruded, but keeping the machine stagnant at the high temperature has not only creep the heat up from the designated melt zone (thus preheating material that should not be preheated yet) but also can damage the material deep in the melt zone. Together with this possible material degradation, the preheated material melts faster and might overshoot the aimed at print temperature until the normal temperature is reached again. Both effects can lead to reduced print quality in the lower layers.



The time saving from keeping the filament heated up for an extended period of time is, in my opinion, not worth the quality reduction that can come from using non-uniform material. You pay more in lost prints than you save in time for heating up the head.



If it is impossible to not keep the hotend heated between prints, it might be advisable try these:




  • Starting every print with a larger purging operation might get rid of degraded material. It would be as simple as extruding some quantity of material before starting the actual print at the edge of the build plate.

  • Aside from purging, it might be a good idea to reduce the hold temperature from 160 °C to a lower temperature, allowing the melt to partly solidify and keep the heat creep in check.






share|improve this answer






























    up vote
    2
    down vote













    With a bottoming value of being printable at 180 °C you are basically cooking the filament at 160 °C. If done a prolonged time, carbonization will take place as the more volatile parts will slowly be gassed out and part from the melt first.



    When you start extruding after a certain time, you will need to get rid of the goo inside, this can lead to (partial) clogs and inconsistent printing. You should either lower it much further or not leaving it on at all.






    share|improve this answer






























      up vote
      1
      down vote













      I leave the extruder working at 190°C between printings up to for 20 minutes while I made the change; this only provoques that the nozzle gets empty; nothing gets burned or clogged. Once to start againg just feed a little more of filament manualy or waits to the skirt do the cleaning and refilling the nozzle.



      Normally at this temperature (190°C) the nozzle gets empty in the next 2 minutes due normal melting flow. I can assure that your printings will be like water drops.






      share|improve this answer

















      • 1




        you use a filament bases printer - they use a pellet based system that melts a considerably larger amount
        – Trish
        Dec 12 at 20:45












      • @Trish The process is the same to clean a lyman filament extruder. Also in the flow meters is needed allowing that all old material flows fully to proceed with a new one.
        – Fernando Baltazar
        Dec 13 at 0:30










      • @Trish I think Fernando's saying that if you completely clean out the hotend, then you don't have a problem. That's true but pretty much useless :-(
        – Carl Witthoft
        Dec 13 at 14:16










      • @CarlWitthoft :D Nice!, not having problems is useless. Normally is not a full cleaning due is emptying by melting flow until you feed more material, if the time is larger then the emptying also is larger and could be totally empty on the next charge.
        – Fernando Baltazar
        Dec 14 at 5:06











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      3 Answers
      3






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      3 Answers
      3






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      up vote
      5
      down vote













      PLA starts to change its properties at above its glass transition temperature of 60-65 °C, if stored there too long. Keeping it at 160°C, close to the melting temperature (173-178 °C) can degrade the material relatively rapidly. During an extrusion, this is usually mitigated by filling fresh material into the melt while the older material gets extruded, but keeping the machine stagnant at the high temperature has not only creep the heat up from the designated melt zone (thus preheating material that should not be preheated yet) but also can damage the material deep in the melt zone. Together with this possible material degradation, the preheated material melts faster and might overshoot the aimed at print temperature until the normal temperature is reached again. Both effects can lead to reduced print quality in the lower layers.



      The time saving from keeping the filament heated up for an extended period of time is, in my opinion, not worth the quality reduction that can come from using non-uniform material. You pay more in lost prints than you save in time for heating up the head.



      If it is impossible to not keep the hotend heated between prints, it might be advisable try these:




      • Starting every print with a larger purging operation might get rid of degraded material. It would be as simple as extruding some quantity of material before starting the actual print at the edge of the build plate.

      • Aside from purging, it might be a good idea to reduce the hold temperature from 160 °C to a lower temperature, allowing the melt to partly solidify and keep the heat creep in check.






      share|improve this answer



























        up vote
        5
        down vote













        PLA starts to change its properties at above its glass transition temperature of 60-65 °C, if stored there too long. Keeping it at 160°C, close to the melting temperature (173-178 °C) can degrade the material relatively rapidly. During an extrusion, this is usually mitigated by filling fresh material into the melt while the older material gets extruded, but keeping the machine stagnant at the high temperature has not only creep the heat up from the designated melt zone (thus preheating material that should not be preheated yet) but also can damage the material deep in the melt zone. Together with this possible material degradation, the preheated material melts faster and might overshoot the aimed at print temperature until the normal temperature is reached again. Both effects can lead to reduced print quality in the lower layers.



        The time saving from keeping the filament heated up for an extended period of time is, in my opinion, not worth the quality reduction that can come from using non-uniform material. You pay more in lost prints than you save in time for heating up the head.



        If it is impossible to not keep the hotend heated between prints, it might be advisable try these:




        • Starting every print with a larger purging operation might get rid of degraded material. It would be as simple as extruding some quantity of material before starting the actual print at the edge of the build plate.

        • Aside from purging, it might be a good idea to reduce the hold temperature from 160 °C to a lower temperature, allowing the melt to partly solidify and keep the heat creep in check.






        share|improve this answer

























          up vote
          5
          down vote










          up vote
          5
          down vote









          PLA starts to change its properties at above its glass transition temperature of 60-65 °C, if stored there too long. Keeping it at 160°C, close to the melting temperature (173-178 °C) can degrade the material relatively rapidly. During an extrusion, this is usually mitigated by filling fresh material into the melt while the older material gets extruded, but keeping the machine stagnant at the high temperature has not only creep the heat up from the designated melt zone (thus preheating material that should not be preheated yet) but also can damage the material deep in the melt zone. Together with this possible material degradation, the preheated material melts faster and might overshoot the aimed at print temperature until the normal temperature is reached again. Both effects can lead to reduced print quality in the lower layers.



          The time saving from keeping the filament heated up for an extended period of time is, in my opinion, not worth the quality reduction that can come from using non-uniform material. You pay more in lost prints than you save in time for heating up the head.



          If it is impossible to not keep the hotend heated between prints, it might be advisable try these:




          • Starting every print with a larger purging operation might get rid of degraded material. It would be as simple as extruding some quantity of material before starting the actual print at the edge of the build plate.

          • Aside from purging, it might be a good idea to reduce the hold temperature from 160 °C to a lower temperature, allowing the melt to partly solidify and keep the heat creep in check.






          share|improve this answer














          PLA starts to change its properties at above its glass transition temperature of 60-65 °C, if stored there too long. Keeping it at 160°C, close to the melting temperature (173-178 °C) can degrade the material relatively rapidly. During an extrusion, this is usually mitigated by filling fresh material into the melt while the older material gets extruded, but keeping the machine stagnant at the high temperature has not only creep the heat up from the designated melt zone (thus preheating material that should not be preheated yet) but also can damage the material deep in the melt zone. Together with this possible material degradation, the preheated material melts faster and might overshoot the aimed at print temperature until the normal temperature is reached again. Both effects can lead to reduced print quality in the lower layers.



          The time saving from keeping the filament heated up for an extended period of time is, in my opinion, not worth the quality reduction that can come from using non-uniform material. You pay more in lost prints than you save in time for heating up the head.



          If it is impossible to not keep the hotend heated between prints, it might be advisable try these:




          • Starting every print with a larger purging operation might get rid of degraded material. It would be as simple as extruding some quantity of material before starting the actual print at the edge of the build plate.

          • Aside from purging, it might be a good idea to reduce the hold temperature from 160 °C to a lower temperature, allowing the melt to partly solidify and keep the heat creep in check.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited Dec 12 at 15:57









          Greenonline

          3,21331044




          3,21331044










          answered Dec 12 at 14:43









          Trish

          3,795635




          3,795635






















              up vote
              2
              down vote













              With a bottoming value of being printable at 180 °C you are basically cooking the filament at 160 °C. If done a prolonged time, carbonization will take place as the more volatile parts will slowly be gassed out and part from the melt first.



              When you start extruding after a certain time, you will need to get rid of the goo inside, this can lead to (partial) clogs and inconsistent printing. You should either lower it much further or not leaving it on at all.






              share|improve this answer



























                up vote
                2
                down vote













                With a bottoming value of being printable at 180 °C you are basically cooking the filament at 160 °C. If done a prolonged time, carbonization will take place as the more volatile parts will slowly be gassed out and part from the melt first.



                When you start extruding after a certain time, you will need to get rid of the goo inside, this can lead to (partial) clogs and inconsistent printing. You should either lower it much further or not leaving it on at all.






                share|improve this answer

























                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote









                  With a bottoming value of being printable at 180 °C you are basically cooking the filament at 160 °C. If done a prolonged time, carbonization will take place as the more volatile parts will slowly be gassed out and part from the melt first.



                  When you start extruding after a certain time, you will need to get rid of the goo inside, this can lead to (partial) clogs and inconsistent printing. You should either lower it much further or not leaving it on at all.






                  share|improve this answer














                  With a bottoming value of being printable at 180 °C you are basically cooking the filament at 160 °C. If done a prolonged time, carbonization will take place as the more volatile parts will slowly be gassed out and part from the melt first.



                  When you start extruding after a certain time, you will need to get rid of the goo inside, this can lead to (partial) clogs and inconsistent printing. You should either lower it much further or not leaving it on at all.







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited Dec 12 at 15:57









                  Greenonline

                  3,21331044




                  3,21331044










                  answered Dec 12 at 15:03









                  0scar

                  9,16421240




                  9,16421240






















                      up vote
                      1
                      down vote













                      I leave the extruder working at 190°C between printings up to for 20 minutes while I made the change; this only provoques that the nozzle gets empty; nothing gets burned or clogged. Once to start againg just feed a little more of filament manualy or waits to the skirt do the cleaning and refilling the nozzle.



                      Normally at this temperature (190°C) the nozzle gets empty in the next 2 minutes due normal melting flow. I can assure that your printings will be like water drops.






                      share|improve this answer

















                      • 1




                        you use a filament bases printer - they use a pellet based system that melts a considerably larger amount
                        – Trish
                        Dec 12 at 20:45












                      • @Trish The process is the same to clean a lyman filament extruder. Also in the flow meters is needed allowing that all old material flows fully to proceed with a new one.
                        – Fernando Baltazar
                        Dec 13 at 0:30










                      • @Trish I think Fernando's saying that if you completely clean out the hotend, then you don't have a problem. That's true but pretty much useless :-(
                        – Carl Witthoft
                        Dec 13 at 14:16










                      • @CarlWitthoft :D Nice!, not having problems is useless. Normally is not a full cleaning due is emptying by melting flow until you feed more material, if the time is larger then the emptying also is larger and could be totally empty on the next charge.
                        – Fernando Baltazar
                        Dec 14 at 5:06















                      up vote
                      1
                      down vote













                      I leave the extruder working at 190°C between printings up to for 20 minutes while I made the change; this only provoques that the nozzle gets empty; nothing gets burned or clogged. Once to start againg just feed a little more of filament manualy or waits to the skirt do the cleaning and refilling the nozzle.



                      Normally at this temperature (190°C) the nozzle gets empty in the next 2 minutes due normal melting flow. I can assure that your printings will be like water drops.






                      share|improve this answer

















                      • 1




                        you use a filament bases printer - they use a pellet based system that melts a considerably larger amount
                        – Trish
                        Dec 12 at 20:45












                      • @Trish The process is the same to clean a lyman filament extruder. Also in the flow meters is needed allowing that all old material flows fully to proceed with a new one.
                        – Fernando Baltazar
                        Dec 13 at 0:30










                      • @Trish I think Fernando's saying that if you completely clean out the hotend, then you don't have a problem. That's true but pretty much useless :-(
                        – Carl Witthoft
                        Dec 13 at 14:16










                      • @CarlWitthoft :D Nice!, not having problems is useless. Normally is not a full cleaning due is emptying by melting flow until you feed more material, if the time is larger then the emptying also is larger and could be totally empty on the next charge.
                        – Fernando Baltazar
                        Dec 14 at 5:06













                      up vote
                      1
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      1
                      down vote









                      I leave the extruder working at 190°C between printings up to for 20 minutes while I made the change; this only provoques that the nozzle gets empty; nothing gets burned or clogged. Once to start againg just feed a little more of filament manualy or waits to the skirt do the cleaning and refilling the nozzle.



                      Normally at this temperature (190°C) the nozzle gets empty in the next 2 minutes due normal melting flow. I can assure that your printings will be like water drops.






                      share|improve this answer












                      I leave the extruder working at 190°C between printings up to for 20 minutes while I made the change; this only provoques that the nozzle gets empty; nothing gets burned or clogged. Once to start againg just feed a little more of filament manualy or waits to the skirt do the cleaning and refilling the nozzle.



                      Normally at this temperature (190°C) the nozzle gets empty in the next 2 minutes due normal melting flow. I can assure that your printings will be like water drops.







                      share|improve this answer












                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer










                      answered Dec 12 at 18:05









                      Fernando Baltazar

                      813315




                      813315








                      • 1




                        you use a filament bases printer - they use a pellet based system that melts a considerably larger amount
                        – Trish
                        Dec 12 at 20:45












                      • @Trish The process is the same to clean a lyman filament extruder. Also in the flow meters is needed allowing that all old material flows fully to proceed with a new one.
                        – Fernando Baltazar
                        Dec 13 at 0:30










                      • @Trish I think Fernando's saying that if you completely clean out the hotend, then you don't have a problem. That's true but pretty much useless :-(
                        – Carl Witthoft
                        Dec 13 at 14:16










                      • @CarlWitthoft :D Nice!, not having problems is useless. Normally is not a full cleaning due is emptying by melting flow until you feed more material, if the time is larger then the emptying also is larger and could be totally empty on the next charge.
                        – Fernando Baltazar
                        Dec 14 at 5:06














                      • 1




                        you use a filament bases printer - they use a pellet based system that melts a considerably larger amount
                        – Trish
                        Dec 12 at 20:45












                      • @Trish The process is the same to clean a lyman filament extruder. Also in the flow meters is needed allowing that all old material flows fully to proceed with a new one.
                        – Fernando Baltazar
                        Dec 13 at 0:30










                      • @Trish I think Fernando's saying that if you completely clean out the hotend, then you don't have a problem. That's true but pretty much useless :-(
                        – Carl Witthoft
                        Dec 13 at 14:16










                      • @CarlWitthoft :D Nice!, not having problems is useless. Normally is not a full cleaning due is emptying by melting flow until you feed more material, if the time is larger then the emptying also is larger and could be totally empty on the next charge.
                        – Fernando Baltazar
                        Dec 14 at 5:06








                      1




                      1




                      you use a filament bases printer - they use a pellet based system that melts a considerably larger amount
                      – Trish
                      Dec 12 at 20:45






                      you use a filament bases printer - they use a pellet based system that melts a considerably larger amount
                      – Trish
                      Dec 12 at 20:45














                      @Trish The process is the same to clean a lyman filament extruder. Also in the flow meters is needed allowing that all old material flows fully to proceed with a new one.
                      – Fernando Baltazar
                      Dec 13 at 0:30




                      @Trish The process is the same to clean a lyman filament extruder. Also in the flow meters is needed allowing that all old material flows fully to proceed with a new one.
                      – Fernando Baltazar
                      Dec 13 at 0:30












                      @Trish I think Fernando's saying that if you completely clean out the hotend, then you don't have a problem. That's true but pretty much useless :-(
                      – Carl Witthoft
                      Dec 13 at 14:16




                      @Trish I think Fernando's saying that if you completely clean out the hotend, then you don't have a problem. That's true but pretty much useless :-(
                      – Carl Witthoft
                      Dec 13 at 14:16












                      @CarlWitthoft :D Nice!, not having problems is useless. Normally is not a full cleaning due is emptying by melting flow until you feed more material, if the time is larger then the emptying also is larger and could be totally empty on the next charge.
                      – Fernando Baltazar
                      Dec 14 at 5:06




                      @CarlWitthoft :D Nice!, not having problems is useless. Normally is not a full cleaning due is emptying by melting flow until you feed more material, if the time is larger then the emptying also is larger and could be totally empty on the next charge.
                      – Fernando Baltazar
                      Dec 14 at 5:06


















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