Interested in 'naive' pronunciation
I'd like to know why 'naive' is pronounced ny-eve but is spelt naive. Where is the ny part coming from? 'na-' isn't pronounced ny, and if the ny part is nai-, then there is only -ve left. This is about pronunciation
pronunciation pronunciation-vs-spelling
|
show 8 more comments
I'd like to know why 'naive' is pronounced ny-eve but is spelt naive. Where is the ny part coming from? 'na-' isn't pronounced ny, and if the ny part is nai-, then there is only -ve left. This is about pronunciation
pronunciation pronunciation-vs-spelling
2
The pronunciation of a word isn't dictated by its spelling. In English, it's better to think of spelling as a clue about the word's pronunciation, rather than as a hard-and-fast rule.
– Mark Beadles
Dec 20 at 15:49
2
@Lordology Nah. Cholmondeley is odd. Taliaferro is odd. Trottiscliffe is odd. Naive is pretty regular.
– choster
Dec 20 at 15:59
3
@Lordology Choster was giving you examples where spelling and pronunciation differ far more widely than in 'naive'. Cholmondeley - Chumley, Taliaferro - Toliver and Trottiscliffe - Trosley. However, they are all either surnames or Placenames and so can perhaps be expected to be on the eccentric side.
– Spagirl
Dec 20 at 16:21
2
Does anyone else pronounce it nah-EVE?
– KarlG
Dec 20 at 19:11
2
Say nah-eve slowly. Then start saying it faster and faster.
– Kevin
Dec 20 at 19:52
|
show 8 more comments
I'd like to know why 'naive' is pronounced ny-eve but is spelt naive. Where is the ny part coming from? 'na-' isn't pronounced ny, and if the ny part is nai-, then there is only -ve left. This is about pronunciation
pronunciation pronunciation-vs-spelling
I'd like to know why 'naive' is pronounced ny-eve but is spelt naive. Where is the ny part coming from? 'na-' isn't pronounced ny, and if the ny part is nai-, then there is only -ve left. This is about pronunciation
pronunciation pronunciation-vs-spelling
pronunciation pronunciation-vs-spelling
edited Dec 21 at 18:52
asked Dec 20 at 15:44
Lordology
43910
43910
2
The pronunciation of a word isn't dictated by its spelling. In English, it's better to think of spelling as a clue about the word's pronunciation, rather than as a hard-and-fast rule.
– Mark Beadles
Dec 20 at 15:49
2
@Lordology Nah. Cholmondeley is odd. Taliaferro is odd. Trottiscliffe is odd. Naive is pretty regular.
– choster
Dec 20 at 15:59
3
@Lordology Choster was giving you examples where spelling and pronunciation differ far more widely than in 'naive'. Cholmondeley - Chumley, Taliaferro - Toliver and Trottiscliffe - Trosley. However, they are all either surnames or Placenames and so can perhaps be expected to be on the eccentric side.
– Spagirl
Dec 20 at 16:21
2
Does anyone else pronounce it nah-EVE?
– KarlG
Dec 20 at 19:11
2
Say nah-eve slowly. Then start saying it faster and faster.
– Kevin
Dec 20 at 19:52
|
show 8 more comments
2
The pronunciation of a word isn't dictated by its spelling. In English, it's better to think of spelling as a clue about the word's pronunciation, rather than as a hard-and-fast rule.
– Mark Beadles
Dec 20 at 15:49
2
@Lordology Nah. Cholmondeley is odd. Taliaferro is odd. Trottiscliffe is odd. Naive is pretty regular.
– choster
Dec 20 at 15:59
3
@Lordology Choster was giving you examples where spelling and pronunciation differ far more widely than in 'naive'. Cholmondeley - Chumley, Taliaferro - Toliver and Trottiscliffe - Trosley. However, they are all either surnames or Placenames and so can perhaps be expected to be on the eccentric side.
– Spagirl
Dec 20 at 16:21
2
Does anyone else pronounce it nah-EVE?
– KarlG
Dec 20 at 19:11
2
Say nah-eve slowly. Then start saying it faster and faster.
– Kevin
Dec 20 at 19:52
2
2
The pronunciation of a word isn't dictated by its spelling. In English, it's better to think of spelling as a clue about the word's pronunciation, rather than as a hard-and-fast rule.
– Mark Beadles
Dec 20 at 15:49
The pronunciation of a word isn't dictated by its spelling. In English, it's better to think of spelling as a clue about the word's pronunciation, rather than as a hard-and-fast rule.
– Mark Beadles
Dec 20 at 15:49
2
2
@Lordology Nah. Cholmondeley is odd. Taliaferro is odd. Trottiscliffe is odd. Naive is pretty regular.
– choster
Dec 20 at 15:59
@Lordology Nah. Cholmondeley is odd. Taliaferro is odd. Trottiscliffe is odd. Naive is pretty regular.
– choster
Dec 20 at 15:59
3
3
@Lordology Choster was giving you examples where spelling and pronunciation differ far more widely than in 'naive'. Cholmondeley - Chumley, Taliaferro - Toliver and Trottiscliffe - Trosley. However, they are all either surnames or Placenames and so can perhaps be expected to be on the eccentric side.
– Spagirl
Dec 20 at 16:21
@Lordology Choster was giving you examples where spelling and pronunciation differ far more widely than in 'naive'. Cholmondeley - Chumley, Taliaferro - Toliver and Trottiscliffe - Trosley. However, they are all either surnames or Placenames and so can perhaps be expected to be on the eccentric side.
– Spagirl
Dec 20 at 16:21
2
2
Does anyone else pronounce it nah-EVE?
– KarlG
Dec 20 at 19:11
Does anyone else pronounce it nah-EVE?
– KarlG
Dec 20 at 19:11
2
2
Say nah-eve slowly. Then start saying it faster and faster.
– Kevin
Dec 20 at 19:52
Say nah-eve slowly. Then start saying it faster and faster.
– Kevin
Dec 20 at 19:52
|
show 8 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
French naïf/naïve does not have a falling diphthong, so its pronunciation wouldn't explain the use of /aɪ/ in English.
English doesn't have that many words where /ɑ/ comes directly before another vowel, especially not when the /ɑ/ is in a "weak" position (unstressed, or at least directly before another vowel with a higher level of stress). Words with /aɪ/ before a stressed vowel are a bit more common; e.g. biography, diameter.
The replacement of /ɑ/ with /aɪ/ is presumably an assimilation to the /i/ in the next syllable. In other contexts, other vowels may turn into diphthongs before a palatal glide /j/ in the following syllable: for example, lawyer has come to be pronounced with the /ɔɪ/ diphthong in the first syllable for many people, and words like arroyo, Loyola, Toyota likewise have /ɔɪ/ instead of /o/ as a syllable nucleus.
Something else that might be relevant is that apparently, people once used the pronunciation "/neɪˈiːv/", with an anglicized "long a" value for the first vowel. This might have made it easier for the diphthong /aɪ/ to eventually become established. Other words spelled with "a" that had variants with /eɪ/ and that are now often pronounced with /aɪ/ (rather than ɑ) in its place are Naomi and Israel. Dais also can have either /eɪ/ or /aɪ/ in the first syllable (the French source word was a monosyllable, but the English pronunciation has deviated in syllable count).
add a comment |
It's of French origin, if that helps. I don't speak French myself.
Word Origin for naive
C7: from French, feminine of naïf, from Old French naif native, spontaneous, from Latin nātīvus native , from nasci to be born
Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 2012 Digital Edition
© William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins
Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2012
Word Origin and History for naive
adj.
1650s, "natural, simple, artless," from French naïve , fem. of naïf , from Old French naif "naive, natural, genuine; just born; foolish, innocent; unspoiled, unworked" (13c.),
from Latin nativus "not artificial," also "native, rustic," literally "born, innate, natural" (see native (adj.)). Related: Naively .
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper
So I'm surprised it doesn't end with -eoux :)
2
It is also noteworthy that the word is often - in English, not French - written with a dieresis over the i (naïve) to indicate that the two vowels are to be pronounced separately, not as a diphthong.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 at 16:16
Is there a way to do that on a standard keyboard?
– CrossRoads
Dec 20 at 16:32
Not on an EN-US or EN-UK standard keyboard, but I believe EN-CA can do it, most European language keyboards can, and US-International can. I use US-International routinely because I need to do multilingual word processing.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 at 16:39
1
@CrossRoads See at SU How do I type accented character in Windows? and on a Mac.
– choster
Dec 20 at 18:01
add a comment |
That's why the word is really naïve. So there are in effect two i's.
1
Could you back this up with any cited sources?
– Lordology
Dec 20 at 16:42
9
The diaeresis (two dots) over the ï doesn't indicate two i's; it indicates that the i should be pronounced as a separate vowel, and not as an "ai" diphthong. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic). So it's na-ive, and not naive.
– Juhasz
Dec 20 at 17:21
3
As another example, the word "reentry" is properly spelled as "reëntry." That doesn't indicate that there's "three e's" in the word, it indicates that you pronounce it re-en-try rather than reen-try.
– John Montgomery
Dec 20 at 19:46
1
I think the typographical convention (of using a diaeresis to indicate a vowel pronounced separately) is and old one, and rarely used these days; ‘naïve’ is one of the few words you still see that use it (along with ‘Noël’). It's much more common to use a hyphen (e.g. ‘co-operate’), or nothing at all (e.g. ‘cooperate’).
– gidds
Dec 20 at 23:41
add a comment |
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3 Answers
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active
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
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oldest
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French naïf/naïve does not have a falling diphthong, so its pronunciation wouldn't explain the use of /aɪ/ in English.
English doesn't have that many words where /ɑ/ comes directly before another vowel, especially not when the /ɑ/ is in a "weak" position (unstressed, or at least directly before another vowel with a higher level of stress). Words with /aɪ/ before a stressed vowel are a bit more common; e.g. biography, diameter.
The replacement of /ɑ/ with /aɪ/ is presumably an assimilation to the /i/ in the next syllable. In other contexts, other vowels may turn into diphthongs before a palatal glide /j/ in the following syllable: for example, lawyer has come to be pronounced with the /ɔɪ/ diphthong in the first syllable for many people, and words like arroyo, Loyola, Toyota likewise have /ɔɪ/ instead of /o/ as a syllable nucleus.
Something else that might be relevant is that apparently, people once used the pronunciation "/neɪˈiːv/", with an anglicized "long a" value for the first vowel. This might have made it easier for the diphthong /aɪ/ to eventually become established. Other words spelled with "a" that had variants with /eɪ/ and that are now often pronounced with /aɪ/ (rather than ɑ) in its place are Naomi and Israel. Dais also can have either /eɪ/ or /aɪ/ in the first syllable (the French source word was a monosyllable, but the English pronunciation has deviated in syllable count).
add a comment |
French naïf/naïve does not have a falling diphthong, so its pronunciation wouldn't explain the use of /aɪ/ in English.
English doesn't have that many words where /ɑ/ comes directly before another vowel, especially not when the /ɑ/ is in a "weak" position (unstressed, or at least directly before another vowel with a higher level of stress). Words with /aɪ/ before a stressed vowel are a bit more common; e.g. biography, diameter.
The replacement of /ɑ/ with /aɪ/ is presumably an assimilation to the /i/ in the next syllable. In other contexts, other vowels may turn into diphthongs before a palatal glide /j/ in the following syllable: for example, lawyer has come to be pronounced with the /ɔɪ/ diphthong in the first syllable for many people, and words like arroyo, Loyola, Toyota likewise have /ɔɪ/ instead of /o/ as a syllable nucleus.
Something else that might be relevant is that apparently, people once used the pronunciation "/neɪˈiːv/", with an anglicized "long a" value for the first vowel. This might have made it easier for the diphthong /aɪ/ to eventually become established. Other words spelled with "a" that had variants with /eɪ/ and that are now often pronounced with /aɪ/ (rather than ɑ) in its place are Naomi and Israel. Dais also can have either /eɪ/ or /aɪ/ in the first syllable (the French source word was a monosyllable, but the English pronunciation has deviated in syllable count).
add a comment |
French naïf/naïve does not have a falling diphthong, so its pronunciation wouldn't explain the use of /aɪ/ in English.
English doesn't have that many words where /ɑ/ comes directly before another vowel, especially not when the /ɑ/ is in a "weak" position (unstressed, or at least directly before another vowel with a higher level of stress). Words with /aɪ/ before a stressed vowel are a bit more common; e.g. biography, diameter.
The replacement of /ɑ/ with /aɪ/ is presumably an assimilation to the /i/ in the next syllable. In other contexts, other vowels may turn into diphthongs before a palatal glide /j/ in the following syllable: for example, lawyer has come to be pronounced with the /ɔɪ/ diphthong in the first syllable for many people, and words like arroyo, Loyola, Toyota likewise have /ɔɪ/ instead of /o/ as a syllable nucleus.
Something else that might be relevant is that apparently, people once used the pronunciation "/neɪˈiːv/", with an anglicized "long a" value for the first vowel. This might have made it easier for the diphthong /aɪ/ to eventually become established. Other words spelled with "a" that had variants with /eɪ/ and that are now often pronounced with /aɪ/ (rather than ɑ) in its place are Naomi and Israel. Dais also can have either /eɪ/ or /aɪ/ in the first syllable (the French source word was a monosyllable, but the English pronunciation has deviated in syllable count).
French naïf/naïve does not have a falling diphthong, so its pronunciation wouldn't explain the use of /aɪ/ in English.
English doesn't have that many words where /ɑ/ comes directly before another vowel, especially not when the /ɑ/ is in a "weak" position (unstressed, or at least directly before another vowel with a higher level of stress). Words with /aɪ/ before a stressed vowel are a bit more common; e.g. biography, diameter.
The replacement of /ɑ/ with /aɪ/ is presumably an assimilation to the /i/ in the next syllable. In other contexts, other vowels may turn into diphthongs before a palatal glide /j/ in the following syllable: for example, lawyer has come to be pronounced with the /ɔɪ/ diphthong in the first syllable for many people, and words like arroyo, Loyola, Toyota likewise have /ɔɪ/ instead of /o/ as a syllable nucleus.
Something else that might be relevant is that apparently, people once used the pronunciation "/neɪˈiːv/", with an anglicized "long a" value for the first vowel. This might have made it easier for the diphthong /aɪ/ to eventually become established. Other words spelled with "a" that had variants with /eɪ/ and that are now often pronounced with /aɪ/ (rather than ɑ) in its place are Naomi and Israel. Dais also can have either /eɪ/ or /aɪ/ in the first syllable (the French source word was a monosyllable, but the English pronunciation has deviated in syllable count).
edited Dec 20 at 16:24
answered Dec 20 at 16:19
sumelic
45.8k8108211
45.8k8108211
add a comment |
add a comment |
It's of French origin, if that helps. I don't speak French myself.
Word Origin for naive
C7: from French, feminine of naïf, from Old French naif native, spontaneous, from Latin nātīvus native , from nasci to be born
Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 2012 Digital Edition
© William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins
Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2012
Word Origin and History for naive
adj.
1650s, "natural, simple, artless," from French naïve , fem. of naïf , from Old French naif "naive, natural, genuine; just born; foolish, innocent; unspoiled, unworked" (13c.),
from Latin nativus "not artificial," also "native, rustic," literally "born, innate, natural" (see native (adj.)). Related: Naively .
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper
So I'm surprised it doesn't end with -eoux :)
2
It is also noteworthy that the word is often - in English, not French - written with a dieresis over the i (naïve) to indicate that the two vowels are to be pronounced separately, not as a diphthong.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 at 16:16
Is there a way to do that on a standard keyboard?
– CrossRoads
Dec 20 at 16:32
Not on an EN-US or EN-UK standard keyboard, but I believe EN-CA can do it, most European language keyboards can, and US-International can. I use US-International routinely because I need to do multilingual word processing.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 at 16:39
1
@CrossRoads See at SU How do I type accented character in Windows? and on a Mac.
– choster
Dec 20 at 18:01
add a comment |
It's of French origin, if that helps. I don't speak French myself.
Word Origin for naive
C7: from French, feminine of naïf, from Old French naif native, spontaneous, from Latin nātīvus native , from nasci to be born
Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 2012 Digital Edition
© William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins
Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2012
Word Origin and History for naive
adj.
1650s, "natural, simple, artless," from French naïve , fem. of naïf , from Old French naif "naive, natural, genuine; just born; foolish, innocent; unspoiled, unworked" (13c.),
from Latin nativus "not artificial," also "native, rustic," literally "born, innate, natural" (see native (adj.)). Related: Naively .
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper
So I'm surprised it doesn't end with -eoux :)
2
It is also noteworthy that the word is often - in English, not French - written with a dieresis over the i (naïve) to indicate that the two vowels are to be pronounced separately, not as a diphthong.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 at 16:16
Is there a way to do that on a standard keyboard?
– CrossRoads
Dec 20 at 16:32
Not on an EN-US or EN-UK standard keyboard, but I believe EN-CA can do it, most European language keyboards can, and US-International can. I use US-International routinely because I need to do multilingual word processing.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 at 16:39
1
@CrossRoads See at SU How do I type accented character in Windows? and on a Mac.
– choster
Dec 20 at 18:01
add a comment |
It's of French origin, if that helps. I don't speak French myself.
Word Origin for naive
C7: from French, feminine of naïf, from Old French naif native, spontaneous, from Latin nātīvus native , from nasci to be born
Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 2012 Digital Edition
© William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins
Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2012
Word Origin and History for naive
adj.
1650s, "natural, simple, artless," from French naïve , fem. of naïf , from Old French naif "naive, natural, genuine; just born; foolish, innocent; unspoiled, unworked" (13c.),
from Latin nativus "not artificial," also "native, rustic," literally "born, innate, natural" (see native (adj.)). Related: Naively .
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper
So I'm surprised it doesn't end with -eoux :)
It's of French origin, if that helps. I don't speak French myself.
Word Origin for naive
C7: from French, feminine of naïf, from Old French naif native, spontaneous, from Latin nātīvus native , from nasci to be born
Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 2012 Digital Edition
© William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins
Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2012
Word Origin and History for naive
adj.
1650s, "natural, simple, artless," from French naïve , fem. of naïf , from Old French naif "naive, natural, genuine; just born; foolish, innocent; unspoiled, unworked" (13c.),
from Latin nativus "not artificial," also "native, rustic," literally "born, innate, natural" (see native (adj.)). Related: Naively .
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper
So I'm surprised it doesn't end with -eoux :)
answered Dec 20 at 15:51
CrossRoads
1853
1853
2
It is also noteworthy that the word is often - in English, not French - written with a dieresis over the i (naïve) to indicate that the two vowels are to be pronounced separately, not as a diphthong.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 at 16:16
Is there a way to do that on a standard keyboard?
– CrossRoads
Dec 20 at 16:32
Not on an EN-US or EN-UK standard keyboard, but I believe EN-CA can do it, most European language keyboards can, and US-International can. I use US-International routinely because I need to do multilingual word processing.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 at 16:39
1
@CrossRoads See at SU How do I type accented character in Windows? and on a Mac.
– choster
Dec 20 at 18:01
add a comment |
2
It is also noteworthy that the word is often - in English, not French - written with a dieresis over the i (naïve) to indicate that the two vowels are to be pronounced separately, not as a diphthong.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 at 16:16
Is there a way to do that on a standard keyboard?
– CrossRoads
Dec 20 at 16:32
Not on an EN-US or EN-UK standard keyboard, but I believe EN-CA can do it, most European language keyboards can, and US-International can. I use US-International routinely because I need to do multilingual word processing.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 at 16:39
1
@CrossRoads See at SU How do I type accented character in Windows? and on a Mac.
– choster
Dec 20 at 18:01
2
2
It is also noteworthy that the word is often - in English, not French - written with a dieresis over the i (naïve) to indicate that the two vowels are to be pronounced separately, not as a diphthong.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 at 16:16
It is also noteworthy that the word is often - in English, not French - written with a dieresis over the i (naïve) to indicate that the two vowels are to be pronounced separately, not as a diphthong.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 at 16:16
Is there a way to do that on a standard keyboard?
– CrossRoads
Dec 20 at 16:32
Is there a way to do that on a standard keyboard?
– CrossRoads
Dec 20 at 16:32
Not on an EN-US or EN-UK standard keyboard, but I believe EN-CA can do it, most European language keyboards can, and US-International can. I use US-International routinely because I need to do multilingual word processing.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 at 16:39
Not on an EN-US or EN-UK standard keyboard, but I believe EN-CA can do it, most European language keyboards can, and US-International can. I use US-International routinely because I need to do multilingual word processing.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 at 16:39
1
1
@CrossRoads See at SU How do I type accented character in Windows? and on a Mac.
– choster
Dec 20 at 18:01
@CrossRoads See at SU How do I type accented character in Windows? and on a Mac.
– choster
Dec 20 at 18:01
add a comment |
That's why the word is really naïve. So there are in effect two i's.
1
Could you back this up with any cited sources?
– Lordology
Dec 20 at 16:42
9
The diaeresis (two dots) over the ï doesn't indicate two i's; it indicates that the i should be pronounced as a separate vowel, and not as an "ai" diphthong. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic). So it's na-ive, and not naive.
– Juhasz
Dec 20 at 17:21
3
As another example, the word "reentry" is properly spelled as "reëntry." That doesn't indicate that there's "three e's" in the word, it indicates that you pronounce it re-en-try rather than reen-try.
– John Montgomery
Dec 20 at 19:46
1
I think the typographical convention (of using a diaeresis to indicate a vowel pronounced separately) is and old one, and rarely used these days; ‘naïve’ is one of the few words you still see that use it (along with ‘Noël’). It's much more common to use a hyphen (e.g. ‘co-operate’), or nothing at all (e.g. ‘cooperate’).
– gidds
Dec 20 at 23:41
add a comment |
That's why the word is really naïve. So there are in effect two i's.
1
Could you back this up with any cited sources?
– Lordology
Dec 20 at 16:42
9
The diaeresis (two dots) over the ï doesn't indicate two i's; it indicates that the i should be pronounced as a separate vowel, and not as an "ai" diphthong. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic). So it's na-ive, and not naive.
– Juhasz
Dec 20 at 17:21
3
As another example, the word "reentry" is properly spelled as "reëntry." That doesn't indicate that there's "three e's" in the word, it indicates that you pronounce it re-en-try rather than reen-try.
– John Montgomery
Dec 20 at 19:46
1
I think the typographical convention (of using a diaeresis to indicate a vowel pronounced separately) is and old one, and rarely used these days; ‘naïve’ is one of the few words you still see that use it (along with ‘Noël’). It's much more common to use a hyphen (e.g. ‘co-operate’), or nothing at all (e.g. ‘cooperate’).
– gidds
Dec 20 at 23:41
add a comment |
That's why the word is really naïve. So there are in effect two i's.
That's why the word is really naïve. So there are in effect two i's.
answered Dec 20 at 16:41
QuentinUK
1073
1073
1
Could you back this up with any cited sources?
– Lordology
Dec 20 at 16:42
9
The diaeresis (two dots) over the ï doesn't indicate two i's; it indicates that the i should be pronounced as a separate vowel, and not as an "ai" diphthong. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic). So it's na-ive, and not naive.
– Juhasz
Dec 20 at 17:21
3
As another example, the word "reentry" is properly spelled as "reëntry." That doesn't indicate that there's "three e's" in the word, it indicates that you pronounce it re-en-try rather than reen-try.
– John Montgomery
Dec 20 at 19:46
1
I think the typographical convention (of using a diaeresis to indicate a vowel pronounced separately) is and old one, and rarely used these days; ‘naïve’ is one of the few words you still see that use it (along with ‘Noël’). It's much more common to use a hyphen (e.g. ‘co-operate’), or nothing at all (e.g. ‘cooperate’).
– gidds
Dec 20 at 23:41
add a comment |
1
Could you back this up with any cited sources?
– Lordology
Dec 20 at 16:42
9
The diaeresis (two dots) over the ï doesn't indicate two i's; it indicates that the i should be pronounced as a separate vowel, and not as an "ai" diphthong. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic). So it's na-ive, and not naive.
– Juhasz
Dec 20 at 17:21
3
As another example, the word "reentry" is properly spelled as "reëntry." That doesn't indicate that there's "three e's" in the word, it indicates that you pronounce it re-en-try rather than reen-try.
– John Montgomery
Dec 20 at 19:46
1
I think the typographical convention (of using a diaeresis to indicate a vowel pronounced separately) is and old one, and rarely used these days; ‘naïve’ is one of the few words you still see that use it (along with ‘Noël’). It's much more common to use a hyphen (e.g. ‘co-operate’), or nothing at all (e.g. ‘cooperate’).
– gidds
Dec 20 at 23:41
1
1
Could you back this up with any cited sources?
– Lordology
Dec 20 at 16:42
Could you back this up with any cited sources?
– Lordology
Dec 20 at 16:42
9
9
The diaeresis (two dots) over the ï doesn't indicate two i's; it indicates that the i should be pronounced as a separate vowel, and not as an "ai" diphthong. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic). So it's na-ive, and not naive.
– Juhasz
Dec 20 at 17:21
The diaeresis (two dots) over the ï doesn't indicate two i's; it indicates that the i should be pronounced as a separate vowel, and not as an "ai" diphthong. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic). So it's na-ive, and not naive.
– Juhasz
Dec 20 at 17:21
3
3
As another example, the word "reentry" is properly spelled as "reëntry." That doesn't indicate that there's "three e's" in the word, it indicates that you pronounce it re-en-try rather than reen-try.
– John Montgomery
Dec 20 at 19:46
As another example, the word "reentry" is properly spelled as "reëntry." That doesn't indicate that there's "three e's" in the word, it indicates that you pronounce it re-en-try rather than reen-try.
– John Montgomery
Dec 20 at 19:46
1
1
I think the typographical convention (of using a diaeresis to indicate a vowel pronounced separately) is and old one, and rarely used these days; ‘naïve’ is one of the few words you still see that use it (along with ‘Noël’). It's much more common to use a hyphen (e.g. ‘co-operate’), or nothing at all (e.g. ‘cooperate’).
– gidds
Dec 20 at 23:41
I think the typographical convention (of using a diaeresis to indicate a vowel pronounced separately) is and old one, and rarely used these days; ‘naïve’ is one of the few words you still see that use it (along with ‘Noël’). It's much more common to use a hyphen (e.g. ‘co-operate’), or nothing at all (e.g. ‘cooperate’).
– gidds
Dec 20 at 23:41
add a comment |
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2
The pronunciation of a word isn't dictated by its spelling. In English, it's better to think of spelling as a clue about the word's pronunciation, rather than as a hard-and-fast rule.
– Mark Beadles
Dec 20 at 15:49
2
@Lordology Nah. Cholmondeley is odd. Taliaferro is odd. Trottiscliffe is odd. Naive is pretty regular.
– choster
Dec 20 at 15:59
3
@Lordology Choster was giving you examples where spelling and pronunciation differ far more widely than in 'naive'. Cholmondeley - Chumley, Taliaferro - Toliver and Trottiscliffe - Trosley. However, they are all either surnames or Placenames and so can perhaps be expected to be on the eccentric side.
– Spagirl
Dec 20 at 16:21
2
Does anyone else pronounce it nah-EVE?
– KarlG
Dec 20 at 19:11
2
Say nah-eve slowly. Then start saying it faster and faster.
– Kevin
Dec 20 at 19:52