Going up of an amalgamated decomposition of a subgroup of finite index











up vote
7
down vote

favorite
1












Let $G$ be a finitely presented group and H a subgroup of index $n$ in $G$. Suppose that H has a non-trivial decomposition as amalgamated product, say $H = A ast_U B$. I am wondering about the following two questions:



(i) If $n = 2$, does then $G$ also have a non-trivial amalgamated decomposition?



(ii) More generally, does there exists sufficient conditions (for example on $A,B,U$) such that $G$ also have non-trivial amalgamated decomposition?










share|cite|improve this question






















  • (ii) is a bit open-ended but at least one important case is when $H$ has infinitely many ends and has finite abelianization (maybe unnecessary): then $G$ also has infinitely many ends and one can use Stallings' theorem.
    – YCor
    Nov 23 at 19:14










  • Thanks! Your comment was already very enlightening to me (I was not truly familiar with theory of ends). Following some reference, e(H)= e(G) in general (so also without finite abelianization).
    – Geoffrey Janssens
    Nov 23 at 22:07






  • 1




    Yes but it's not the point. If $e(H)=infty$, we deduce that $e(G)=infty$, so by Stallings, $G$ decomposes as HNN or amalgam over a finite group. If $mathbf{Z}$ is not a quotient of $H$, then it's not a quotient of $G$ and hence we can exclude the HNN possibility and hence $G$ splits as amalgam over a finite group. But just knowing that (a) $G$ has infinitely many ends (b) $G$ has some finite index subgroup with a nontrivial amalgam decomposition, it's unclear to me if $G$ also has a nontrivial amalgam decomposition.
    – YCor
    Nov 23 at 22:12












  • Thanks for the clarification. Condition (a) and (b) is actually fully my setting, so I would be very interested in a positive answer.
    – Geoffrey Janssens
    Nov 23 at 23:04






  • 1




    Possibly this could be asked separately: let $G$ be a group with an amalgam decomposition over a finite subgroup: does every finite index over group also have such an amalgam decomposition? I guess the answer is yes (without extra assumption on $G$).
    – YCor
    Nov 30 at 20:11















up vote
7
down vote

favorite
1












Let $G$ be a finitely presented group and H a subgroup of index $n$ in $G$. Suppose that H has a non-trivial decomposition as amalgamated product, say $H = A ast_U B$. I am wondering about the following two questions:



(i) If $n = 2$, does then $G$ also have a non-trivial amalgamated decomposition?



(ii) More generally, does there exists sufficient conditions (for example on $A,B,U$) such that $G$ also have non-trivial amalgamated decomposition?










share|cite|improve this question






















  • (ii) is a bit open-ended but at least one important case is when $H$ has infinitely many ends and has finite abelianization (maybe unnecessary): then $G$ also has infinitely many ends and one can use Stallings' theorem.
    – YCor
    Nov 23 at 19:14










  • Thanks! Your comment was already very enlightening to me (I was not truly familiar with theory of ends). Following some reference, e(H)= e(G) in general (so also without finite abelianization).
    – Geoffrey Janssens
    Nov 23 at 22:07






  • 1




    Yes but it's not the point. If $e(H)=infty$, we deduce that $e(G)=infty$, so by Stallings, $G$ decomposes as HNN or amalgam over a finite group. If $mathbf{Z}$ is not a quotient of $H$, then it's not a quotient of $G$ and hence we can exclude the HNN possibility and hence $G$ splits as amalgam over a finite group. But just knowing that (a) $G$ has infinitely many ends (b) $G$ has some finite index subgroup with a nontrivial amalgam decomposition, it's unclear to me if $G$ also has a nontrivial amalgam decomposition.
    – YCor
    Nov 23 at 22:12












  • Thanks for the clarification. Condition (a) and (b) is actually fully my setting, so I would be very interested in a positive answer.
    – Geoffrey Janssens
    Nov 23 at 23:04






  • 1




    Possibly this could be asked separately: let $G$ be a group with an amalgam decomposition over a finite subgroup: does every finite index over group also have such an amalgam decomposition? I guess the answer is yes (without extra assumption on $G$).
    – YCor
    Nov 30 at 20:11













up vote
7
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
7
down vote

favorite
1






1





Let $G$ be a finitely presented group and H a subgroup of index $n$ in $G$. Suppose that H has a non-trivial decomposition as amalgamated product, say $H = A ast_U B$. I am wondering about the following two questions:



(i) If $n = 2$, does then $G$ also have a non-trivial amalgamated decomposition?



(ii) More generally, does there exists sufficient conditions (for example on $A,B,U$) such that $G$ also have non-trivial amalgamated decomposition?










share|cite|improve this question













Let $G$ be a finitely presented group and H a subgroup of index $n$ in $G$. Suppose that H has a non-trivial decomposition as amalgamated product, say $H = A ast_U B$. I am wondering about the following two questions:



(i) If $n = 2$, does then $G$ also have a non-trivial amalgamated decomposition?



(ii) More generally, does there exists sufficient conditions (for example on $A,B,U$) such that $G$ also have non-trivial amalgamated decomposition?







gr.group-theory graph-theory geometric-group-theory






share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question











share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question










asked Nov 23 at 18:03









Geoffrey Janssens

485




485












  • (ii) is a bit open-ended but at least one important case is when $H$ has infinitely many ends and has finite abelianization (maybe unnecessary): then $G$ also has infinitely many ends and one can use Stallings' theorem.
    – YCor
    Nov 23 at 19:14










  • Thanks! Your comment was already very enlightening to me (I was not truly familiar with theory of ends). Following some reference, e(H)= e(G) in general (so also without finite abelianization).
    – Geoffrey Janssens
    Nov 23 at 22:07






  • 1




    Yes but it's not the point. If $e(H)=infty$, we deduce that $e(G)=infty$, so by Stallings, $G$ decomposes as HNN or amalgam over a finite group. If $mathbf{Z}$ is not a quotient of $H$, then it's not a quotient of $G$ and hence we can exclude the HNN possibility and hence $G$ splits as amalgam over a finite group. But just knowing that (a) $G$ has infinitely many ends (b) $G$ has some finite index subgroup with a nontrivial amalgam decomposition, it's unclear to me if $G$ also has a nontrivial amalgam decomposition.
    – YCor
    Nov 23 at 22:12












  • Thanks for the clarification. Condition (a) and (b) is actually fully my setting, so I would be very interested in a positive answer.
    – Geoffrey Janssens
    Nov 23 at 23:04






  • 1




    Possibly this could be asked separately: let $G$ be a group with an amalgam decomposition over a finite subgroup: does every finite index over group also have such an amalgam decomposition? I guess the answer is yes (without extra assumption on $G$).
    – YCor
    Nov 30 at 20:11


















  • (ii) is a bit open-ended but at least one important case is when $H$ has infinitely many ends and has finite abelianization (maybe unnecessary): then $G$ also has infinitely many ends and one can use Stallings' theorem.
    – YCor
    Nov 23 at 19:14










  • Thanks! Your comment was already very enlightening to me (I was not truly familiar with theory of ends). Following some reference, e(H)= e(G) in general (so also without finite abelianization).
    – Geoffrey Janssens
    Nov 23 at 22:07






  • 1




    Yes but it's not the point. If $e(H)=infty$, we deduce that $e(G)=infty$, so by Stallings, $G$ decomposes as HNN or amalgam over a finite group. If $mathbf{Z}$ is not a quotient of $H$, then it's not a quotient of $G$ and hence we can exclude the HNN possibility and hence $G$ splits as amalgam over a finite group. But just knowing that (a) $G$ has infinitely many ends (b) $G$ has some finite index subgroup with a nontrivial amalgam decomposition, it's unclear to me if $G$ also has a nontrivial amalgam decomposition.
    – YCor
    Nov 23 at 22:12












  • Thanks for the clarification. Condition (a) and (b) is actually fully my setting, so I would be very interested in a positive answer.
    – Geoffrey Janssens
    Nov 23 at 23:04






  • 1




    Possibly this could be asked separately: let $G$ be a group with an amalgam decomposition over a finite subgroup: does every finite index over group also have such an amalgam decomposition? I guess the answer is yes (without extra assumption on $G$).
    – YCor
    Nov 30 at 20:11
















(ii) is a bit open-ended but at least one important case is when $H$ has infinitely many ends and has finite abelianization (maybe unnecessary): then $G$ also has infinitely many ends and one can use Stallings' theorem.
– YCor
Nov 23 at 19:14




(ii) is a bit open-ended but at least one important case is when $H$ has infinitely many ends and has finite abelianization (maybe unnecessary): then $G$ also has infinitely many ends and one can use Stallings' theorem.
– YCor
Nov 23 at 19:14












Thanks! Your comment was already very enlightening to me (I was not truly familiar with theory of ends). Following some reference, e(H)= e(G) in general (so also without finite abelianization).
– Geoffrey Janssens
Nov 23 at 22:07




Thanks! Your comment was already very enlightening to me (I was not truly familiar with theory of ends). Following some reference, e(H)= e(G) in general (so also without finite abelianization).
– Geoffrey Janssens
Nov 23 at 22:07




1




1




Yes but it's not the point. If $e(H)=infty$, we deduce that $e(G)=infty$, so by Stallings, $G$ decomposes as HNN or amalgam over a finite group. If $mathbf{Z}$ is not a quotient of $H$, then it's not a quotient of $G$ and hence we can exclude the HNN possibility and hence $G$ splits as amalgam over a finite group. But just knowing that (a) $G$ has infinitely many ends (b) $G$ has some finite index subgroup with a nontrivial amalgam decomposition, it's unclear to me if $G$ also has a nontrivial amalgam decomposition.
– YCor
Nov 23 at 22:12






Yes but it's not the point. If $e(H)=infty$, we deduce that $e(G)=infty$, so by Stallings, $G$ decomposes as HNN or amalgam over a finite group. If $mathbf{Z}$ is not a quotient of $H$, then it's not a quotient of $G$ and hence we can exclude the HNN possibility and hence $G$ splits as amalgam over a finite group. But just knowing that (a) $G$ has infinitely many ends (b) $G$ has some finite index subgroup with a nontrivial amalgam decomposition, it's unclear to me if $G$ also has a nontrivial amalgam decomposition.
– YCor
Nov 23 at 22:12














Thanks for the clarification. Condition (a) and (b) is actually fully my setting, so I would be very interested in a positive answer.
– Geoffrey Janssens
Nov 23 at 23:04




Thanks for the clarification. Condition (a) and (b) is actually fully my setting, so I would be very interested in a positive answer.
– Geoffrey Janssens
Nov 23 at 23:04




1




1




Possibly this could be asked separately: let $G$ be a group with an amalgam decomposition over a finite subgroup: does every finite index over group also have such an amalgam decomposition? I guess the answer is yes (without extra assumption on $G$).
– YCor
Nov 30 at 20:11




Possibly this could be asked separately: let $G$ be a group with an amalgam decomposition over a finite subgroup: does every finite index over group also have such an amalgam decomposition? I guess the answer is yes (without extra assumption on $G$).
– YCor
Nov 30 at 20:11










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
7
down vote



accepted










Yes, there are many examples: start from any group $A$, and consider $Awr C_2=A^2rtimes C_2$, $C_2$ permuting both copies. Consider the inclusion of index 2 $$A^2subset Awr C_2.$$



a) If $A$ has a nontrivial amalgam decomposition, so does the group $A^2$ (since it has $A$ as quotient group).



b) It remains the question when $Awr C_2$ has Property FA. This is answered in Theorem 1.1 of my paper with Aditi Kar (arxiv link, J. Group Theory publisher link). Assuming that $A$ is countable, and $F$ a nontrivial finite group, $Awr F=A^Frtimes F$ has Serre's Property FA if and only if $A$ is finitely generated and has finite abelianization. ($star$)



So, for (a) let's assume that $A$ has a nontrivial amalgam decomposition, and for (b) let's assume that $A$ is finitely generated with finite abelianization. In this case, $A^2$ admits a nontrivial amalgam decomposition, but not its overgroup of index two $Awr C_2$.



To satisfy both fulfillments, one can take $A$ infinite dihedral, or any Coxeter group with an amalgam decomposition (such as $langle a,b,c:a^2=b^2=c^2=(ab)^k=(bc)^m=1rangle$), or many other examples.



The same holds with the cyclic group $C_2$ replaced with $C_n$ for arbitrary $nge 2$.





To be self-contained here's a proof of ($star$). Let $A$ be a finitely generated group with finite abelianization, $F$ a nontrivial finite group, and let $G=Awr F$ act on a tree $T$ without edge inversion. Write $A^F=prod_{iin F}A_i$.



Suppose that the action is unbounded. Then it is unbounded on $A_i$ for some $i$, and hence on each $A_i$ since they are all conjugate.
Since $A$ is finitely generated, choose some element $f_i$ in $A_i$ acting as a loxodromic isometry; its axis $D_i$ is then invariant by $A_j$ for all $jneq i$. For $jneq i$, $D_j$ is $f_j$-invariant and hence $D_j=D_i$. This proves (using that $|F|ge 2$ to ensure the existence of $j$) that $D_i$ is $A_i$-invariant. Also it does not depend on $i$; call it $D$: $D$ is the unique minimal $A_i$-invariant subtree $T_i$ of $T$. Since $F$ permutes the $T_i$, it thus preserves the axis $D$.



Since the actions of each $A_i$ on the axis $D$ commute with each other and are all unbounded and $|F|ge 2$, they cannot be orientation reversing (since the centralizer of an orientation-reserving unbounded action on the line is trivial); so the action of $A_i$ on $D$ is given by a nontrivial homomorphism $A_itomathrm{Aut}^+(D)simeqmathbf{Z}$. But since $A$ has a finite abelianization, we deduce a contradiction.






share|cite|improve this answer























  • Thanks a lot for your very clear and precise answer!! Also for the reference to your interesting article with Aditi.
    – Geoffrey Janssens
    Nov 23 at 22:08











Your Answer





StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");

StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "504"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});

function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});


}
});














draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmathoverflow.net%2fquestions%2f316048%2fgoing-up-of-an-amalgamated-decomposition-of-a-subgroup-of-finite-index%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
7
down vote



accepted










Yes, there are many examples: start from any group $A$, and consider $Awr C_2=A^2rtimes C_2$, $C_2$ permuting both copies. Consider the inclusion of index 2 $$A^2subset Awr C_2.$$



a) If $A$ has a nontrivial amalgam decomposition, so does the group $A^2$ (since it has $A$ as quotient group).



b) It remains the question when $Awr C_2$ has Property FA. This is answered in Theorem 1.1 of my paper with Aditi Kar (arxiv link, J. Group Theory publisher link). Assuming that $A$ is countable, and $F$ a nontrivial finite group, $Awr F=A^Frtimes F$ has Serre's Property FA if and only if $A$ is finitely generated and has finite abelianization. ($star$)



So, for (a) let's assume that $A$ has a nontrivial amalgam decomposition, and for (b) let's assume that $A$ is finitely generated with finite abelianization. In this case, $A^2$ admits a nontrivial amalgam decomposition, but not its overgroup of index two $Awr C_2$.



To satisfy both fulfillments, one can take $A$ infinite dihedral, or any Coxeter group with an amalgam decomposition (such as $langle a,b,c:a^2=b^2=c^2=(ab)^k=(bc)^m=1rangle$), or many other examples.



The same holds with the cyclic group $C_2$ replaced with $C_n$ for arbitrary $nge 2$.





To be self-contained here's a proof of ($star$). Let $A$ be a finitely generated group with finite abelianization, $F$ a nontrivial finite group, and let $G=Awr F$ act on a tree $T$ without edge inversion. Write $A^F=prod_{iin F}A_i$.



Suppose that the action is unbounded. Then it is unbounded on $A_i$ for some $i$, and hence on each $A_i$ since they are all conjugate.
Since $A$ is finitely generated, choose some element $f_i$ in $A_i$ acting as a loxodromic isometry; its axis $D_i$ is then invariant by $A_j$ for all $jneq i$. For $jneq i$, $D_j$ is $f_j$-invariant and hence $D_j=D_i$. This proves (using that $|F|ge 2$ to ensure the existence of $j$) that $D_i$ is $A_i$-invariant. Also it does not depend on $i$; call it $D$: $D$ is the unique minimal $A_i$-invariant subtree $T_i$ of $T$. Since $F$ permutes the $T_i$, it thus preserves the axis $D$.



Since the actions of each $A_i$ on the axis $D$ commute with each other and are all unbounded and $|F|ge 2$, they cannot be orientation reversing (since the centralizer of an orientation-reserving unbounded action on the line is trivial); so the action of $A_i$ on $D$ is given by a nontrivial homomorphism $A_itomathrm{Aut}^+(D)simeqmathbf{Z}$. But since $A$ has a finite abelianization, we deduce a contradiction.






share|cite|improve this answer























  • Thanks a lot for your very clear and precise answer!! Also for the reference to your interesting article with Aditi.
    – Geoffrey Janssens
    Nov 23 at 22:08















up vote
7
down vote



accepted










Yes, there are many examples: start from any group $A$, and consider $Awr C_2=A^2rtimes C_2$, $C_2$ permuting both copies. Consider the inclusion of index 2 $$A^2subset Awr C_2.$$



a) If $A$ has a nontrivial amalgam decomposition, so does the group $A^2$ (since it has $A$ as quotient group).



b) It remains the question when $Awr C_2$ has Property FA. This is answered in Theorem 1.1 of my paper with Aditi Kar (arxiv link, J. Group Theory publisher link). Assuming that $A$ is countable, and $F$ a nontrivial finite group, $Awr F=A^Frtimes F$ has Serre's Property FA if and only if $A$ is finitely generated and has finite abelianization. ($star$)



So, for (a) let's assume that $A$ has a nontrivial amalgam decomposition, and for (b) let's assume that $A$ is finitely generated with finite abelianization. In this case, $A^2$ admits a nontrivial amalgam decomposition, but not its overgroup of index two $Awr C_2$.



To satisfy both fulfillments, one can take $A$ infinite dihedral, or any Coxeter group with an amalgam decomposition (such as $langle a,b,c:a^2=b^2=c^2=(ab)^k=(bc)^m=1rangle$), or many other examples.



The same holds with the cyclic group $C_2$ replaced with $C_n$ for arbitrary $nge 2$.





To be self-contained here's a proof of ($star$). Let $A$ be a finitely generated group with finite abelianization, $F$ a nontrivial finite group, and let $G=Awr F$ act on a tree $T$ without edge inversion. Write $A^F=prod_{iin F}A_i$.



Suppose that the action is unbounded. Then it is unbounded on $A_i$ for some $i$, and hence on each $A_i$ since they are all conjugate.
Since $A$ is finitely generated, choose some element $f_i$ in $A_i$ acting as a loxodromic isometry; its axis $D_i$ is then invariant by $A_j$ for all $jneq i$. For $jneq i$, $D_j$ is $f_j$-invariant and hence $D_j=D_i$. This proves (using that $|F|ge 2$ to ensure the existence of $j$) that $D_i$ is $A_i$-invariant. Also it does not depend on $i$; call it $D$: $D$ is the unique minimal $A_i$-invariant subtree $T_i$ of $T$. Since $F$ permutes the $T_i$, it thus preserves the axis $D$.



Since the actions of each $A_i$ on the axis $D$ commute with each other and are all unbounded and $|F|ge 2$, they cannot be orientation reversing (since the centralizer of an orientation-reserving unbounded action on the line is trivial); so the action of $A_i$ on $D$ is given by a nontrivial homomorphism $A_itomathrm{Aut}^+(D)simeqmathbf{Z}$. But since $A$ has a finite abelianization, we deduce a contradiction.






share|cite|improve this answer























  • Thanks a lot for your very clear and precise answer!! Also for the reference to your interesting article with Aditi.
    – Geoffrey Janssens
    Nov 23 at 22:08













up vote
7
down vote



accepted







up vote
7
down vote



accepted






Yes, there are many examples: start from any group $A$, and consider $Awr C_2=A^2rtimes C_2$, $C_2$ permuting both copies. Consider the inclusion of index 2 $$A^2subset Awr C_2.$$



a) If $A$ has a nontrivial amalgam decomposition, so does the group $A^2$ (since it has $A$ as quotient group).



b) It remains the question when $Awr C_2$ has Property FA. This is answered in Theorem 1.1 of my paper with Aditi Kar (arxiv link, J. Group Theory publisher link). Assuming that $A$ is countable, and $F$ a nontrivial finite group, $Awr F=A^Frtimes F$ has Serre's Property FA if and only if $A$ is finitely generated and has finite abelianization. ($star$)



So, for (a) let's assume that $A$ has a nontrivial amalgam decomposition, and for (b) let's assume that $A$ is finitely generated with finite abelianization. In this case, $A^2$ admits a nontrivial amalgam decomposition, but not its overgroup of index two $Awr C_2$.



To satisfy both fulfillments, one can take $A$ infinite dihedral, or any Coxeter group with an amalgam decomposition (such as $langle a,b,c:a^2=b^2=c^2=(ab)^k=(bc)^m=1rangle$), or many other examples.



The same holds with the cyclic group $C_2$ replaced with $C_n$ for arbitrary $nge 2$.





To be self-contained here's a proof of ($star$). Let $A$ be a finitely generated group with finite abelianization, $F$ a nontrivial finite group, and let $G=Awr F$ act on a tree $T$ without edge inversion. Write $A^F=prod_{iin F}A_i$.



Suppose that the action is unbounded. Then it is unbounded on $A_i$ for some $i$, and hence on each $A_i$ since they are all conjugate.
Since $A$ is finitely generated, choose some element $f_i$ in $A_i$ acting as a loxodromic isometry; its axis $D_i$ is then invariant by $A_j$ for all $jneq i$. For $jneq i$, $D_j$ is $f_j$-invariant and hence $D_j=D_i$. This proves (using that $|F|ge 2$ to ensure the existence of $j$) that $D_i$ is $A_i$-invariant. Also it does not depend on $i$; call it $D$: $D$ is the unique minimal $A_i$-invariant subtree $T_i$ of $T$. Since $F$ permutes the $T_i$, it thus preserves the axis $D$.



Since the actions of each $A_i$ on the axis $D$ commute with each other and are all unbounded and $|F|ge 2$, they cannot be orientation reversing (since the centralizer of an orientation-reserving unbounded action on the line is trivial); so the action of $A_i$ on $D$ is given by a nontrivial homomorphism $A_itomathrm{Aut}^+(D)simeqmathbf{Z}$. But since $A$ has a finite abelianization, we deduce a contradiction.






share|cite|improve this answer














Yes, there are many examples: start from any group $A$, and consider $Awr C_2=A^2rtimes C_2$, $C_2$ permuting both copies. Consider the inclusion of index 2 $$A^2subset Awr C_2.$$



a) If $A$ has a nontrivial amalgam decomposition, so does the group $A^2$ (since it has $A$ as quotient group).



b) It remains the question when $Awr C_2$ has Property FA. This is answered in Theorem 1.1 of my paper with Aditi Kar (arxiv link, J. Group Theory publisher link). Assuming that $A$ is countable, and $F$ a nontrivial finite group, $Awr F=A^Frtimes F$ has Serre's Property FA if and only if $A$ is finitely generated and has finite abelianization. ($star$)



So, for (a) let's assume that $A$ has a nontrivial amalgam decomposition, and for (b) let's assume that $A$ is finitely generated with finite abelianization. In this case, $A^2$ admits a nontrivial amalgam decomposition, but not its overgroup of index two $Awr C_2$.



To satisfy both fulfillments, one can take $A$ infinite dihedral, or any Coxeter group with an amalgam decomposition (such as $langle a,b,c:a^2=b^2=c^2=(ab)^k=(bc)^m=1rangle$), or many other examples.



The same holds with the cyclic group $C_2$ replaced with $C_n$ for arbitrary $nge 2$.





To be self-contained here's a proof of ($star$). Let $A$ be a finitely generated group with finite abelianization, $F$ a nontrivial finite group, and let $G=Awr F$ act on a tree $T$ without edge inversion. Write $A^F=prod_{iin F}A_i$.



Suppose that the action is unbounded. Then it is unbounded on $A_i$ for some $i$, and hence on each $A_i$ since they are all conjugate.
Since $A$ is finitely generated, choose some element $f_i$ in $A_i$ acting as a loxodromic isometry; its axis $D_i$ is then invariant by $A_j$ for all $jneq i$. For $jneq i$, $D_j$ is $f_j$-invariant and hence $D_j=D_i$. This proves (using that $|F|ge 2$ to ensure the existence of $j$) that $D_i$ is $A_i$-invariant. Also it does not depend on $i$; call it $D$: $D$ is the unique minimal $A_i$-invariant subtree $T_i$ of $T$. Since $F$ permutes the $T_i$, it thus preserves the axis $D$.



Since the actions of each $A_i$ on the axis $D$ commute with each other and are all unbounded and $|F|ge 2$, they cannot be orientation reversing (since the centralizer of an orientation-reserving unbounded action on the line is trivial); so the action of $A_i$ on $D$ is given by a nontrivial homomorphism $A_itomathrm{Aut}^+(D)simeqmathbf{Z}$. But since $A$ has a finite abelianization, we deduce a contradiction.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Nov 23 at 19:11

























answered Nov 23 at 18:39









YCor

27k380132




27k380132












  • Thanks a lot for your very clear and precise answer!! Also for the reference to your interesting article with Aditi.
    – Geoffrey Janssens
    Nov 23 at 22:08


















  • Thanks a lot for your very clear and precise answer!! Also for the reference to your interesting article with Aditi.
    – Geoffrey Janssens
    Nov 23 at 22:08
















Thanks a lot for your very clear and precise answer!! Also for the reference to your interesting article with Aditi.
– Geoffrey Janssens
Nov 23 at 22:08




Thanks a lot for your very clear and precise answer!! Also for the reference to your interesting article with Aditi.
– Geoffrey Janssens
Nov 23 at 22:08


















draft saved

draft discarded




















































Thanks for contributing an answer to MathOverflow!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid



  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid



  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmathoverflow.net%2fquestions%2f316048%2fgoing-up-of-an-amalgamated-decomposition-of-a-subgroup-of-finite-index%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

Сан-Квентин

Алькесар

Josef Freinademetz