Shorting a high voltage electrolytic - damaging?
I have a high voltage (400V) electrolytic capacitor, and I sometimes discharge it by shorting the terminals with a screwdriver. I get a fat spark and a bang. However, apart from minor damage to the terminals/connections, does doing this cause any damage to the capacitor?
capacitor discharge
asked Dec 17 at 12:05
Dirk Bruere
5,35022755
add a comment |
I have a high voltage (400V) electrolytic capacitor, and I sometimes discharge it by shorting the terminals with a screwdriver. I get a fat spark and a bang. However, apart from minor damage to the terminals/connections, does doing this cause any damage to the capacitor?
capacitor discharge
asked Dec 17 at 12:05
Dirk Bruere
5,35022755
4
If capacitor has enough pulse current capability, flying bits of molten metal from vaporized screwdriver tip is a hazard to your eyes.
– peufeu
Dec 17 at 13:39
1
Yes, easy to do (I've done it). The point where the pin is crimped to the foil is a weak spot. But if it hasn't happened yet, you may be OK.
– Robert Endl
Dec 17 at 16:08
add a comment |
I have a high voltage (400V) electrolytic capacitor, and I sometimes discharge it by shorting the terminals with a screwdriver. I get a fat spark and a bang. However, apart from minor damage to the terminals/connections, does doing this cause any damage to the capacitor?
capacitor discharge
asked Dec 17 at 12:05
Dirk Bruere
5,35022755
I have a high voltage (400V) electrolytic capacitor, and I sometimes discharge it by shorting the terminals with a screwdriver. I get a fat spark and a bang. However, apart from minor damage to the terminals/connections, does doing this cause any damage to the capacitor?
capacitor discharge
capacitor discharge
asked Dec 17 at 12:05
Dirk Bruere
5,35022755
asked Dec 17 at 12:05
Dirk Bruere
5,35022755
asked Dec 17 at 12:05
Dirk Bruere
5,35022755
asked Dec 17 at 12:05
Dirk Bruere
5,35022755
asked Dec 17 at 12:05
Dirk Bruere
5,35022755
5,35022755
4
If capacitor has enough pulse current capability, flying bits of molten metal from vaporized screwdriver tip is a hazard to your eyes.
– peufeu
Dec 17 at 13:39
1
Yes, easy to do (I've done it). The point where the pin is crimped to the foil is a weak spot. But if it hasn't happened yet, you may be OK.
– Robert Endl
Dec 17 at 16:08
add a comment |
4
If capacitor has enough pulse current capability, flying bits of molten metal from vaporized screwdriver tip is a hazard to your eyes.
– peufeu
Dec 17 at 13:39
1
Yes, easy to do (I've done it). The point where the pin is crimped to the foil is a weak spot. But if it hasn't happened yet, you may be OK.
– Robert Endl
Dec 17 at 16:08
4
4
If capacitor has enough pulse current capability, flying bits of molten metal from vaporized screwdriver tip is a hazard to your eyes.
– peufeu
Dec 17 at 13:39
If capacitor has enough pulse current capability, flying bits of molten metal from vaporized screwdriver tip is a hazard to your eyes.
– peufeu
Dec 17 at 13:39
1
1
Yes, easy to do (I've done it). The point where the pin is crimped to the foil is a weak spot. But if it hasn't happened yet, you may be OK.
– Robert Endl
Dec 17 at 16:08
Yes, easy to do (I've done it). The point where the pin is crimped to the foil is a weak spot. But if it hasn't happened yet, you may be OK.
– Robert Endl
Dec 17 at 16:08
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
The possibility certainly exists, depending on how the current distributes within the cap and how much energy is suddenly converted to heat inside the cap- and there are capacitors designed for pulse discharge applications, such as photoflash, but even there there is some series resistance and inductance to limit the current.
The place to look would be in the application data (probably not the datasheet) for your model of capacitor. For example, the Nichicon Application Guideline document cautions (emphasis added):
- In the equipment
( 1 ) Do not directly touch terminal by hand.
( 2 ) Do not short between terminals with conductor, nor spill conductible liquid such as alkaline or acidic solution on or
near the capacitor.
And also
5) For a circuit that repeats rapid charging / discharging of electricity, an appropriate capacitor that is capable of enduring
such a condition must be used. Welding machines and photo flash are a few examples of products that contain such a
circuit. In addition, rapid charging / discharging may be repeated in control circuits for servomotors, In which the
circuit voltage fluctuates substantially.
For appropriate choice of capacitors for circuit that repeat rapid charging / discharging, please consult Nichicon.
If excess a rush current due to drastic charge/dis-charge was applied to conductive polymer aluminum solid
electrolytic capacitors, and conductive polymer hybrid aluminum electrolytic capacitors, it may cause a short circuit or
an increase in leakage current. Therefore, Please do not apply a rush current that is larger than 10A.
So if you're using the conductive polymer type, that's a clear danger. Tantalums also have a well-known propensity to self-immolate if subjected to excessive transient current.
answered Dec 17 at 12:54
Spehro Pefhany
202k4148404
add a comment |
This is clearly a bad practice considering the potential damage to the capacitor, to the board and to the screw driver. Not talking about the stress when the spark occurs : ) In our lab, we have built cheap "dischargers" made of a 3-W/1-k resistor isolated with some heat-shrink tubing as the below picture shows. It is easy to handle and you painlessly reduce the bulk capacitor voltage to a safe value in 1 second or so. Highly recommended if you deal with high-voltage boards!
answered Dec 17 at 16:40
Verbal Kint
3,0701311
1
Be careful using those cement wirewound resistors in high pulse power applications, I've been rather successful in getting them to explode. The shrink wrap might contain it, but I wouldn't want fingers there. If you keep peak power within a small multiple of the steady state power rating it ought to be fine.
– Spehro Pefhany
Dec 17 at 17:04
Hello, well, we use this principle for 20+ years on ac-dc power supplies with 400-V charged bulk caps in PFC stages and never had a problem. It can of course be different in some of the applications you mentioned but I don't have the experience with those then.
– Verbal Kint
Dec 17 at 17:09
2
You probably used the 10K shown, and not say 10 ohms. ;-)
– Spehro Pefhany
Dec 17 at 17:10
1
Yes, 1 to 10 kohms is fine but certainly not 10 ohms : )
– Verbal Kint
Dec 17 at 17:11
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["\$", "\$"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("schematics", function () {
StackExchange.schematics.init();
});
}, "cicuitlab");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "135"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2felectronics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f412605%2fshorting-a-high-voltage-electrolytic-damaging%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
The possibility certainly exists, depending on how the current distributes within the cap and how much energy is suddenly converted to heat inside the cap- and there are capacitors designed for pulse discharge applications, such as photoflash, but even there there is some series resistance and inductance to limit the current.
The place to look would be in the application data (probably not the datasheet) for your model of capacitor. For example, the Nichicon Application Guideline document cautions (emphasis added):
- In the equipment
( 1 ) Do not directly touch terminal by hand.
( 2 ) Do not short between terminals with conductor, nor spill conductible liquid such as alkaline or acidic solution on or
near the capacitor.
And also
5) For a circuit that repeats rapid charging / discharging of electricity, an appropriate capacitor that is capable of enduring
such a condition must be used. Welding machines and photo flash are a few examples of products that contain such a
circuit. In addition, rapid charging / discharging may be repeated in control circuits for servomotors, In which the
circuit voltage fluctuates substantially.
For appropriate choice of capacitors for circuit that repeat rapid charging / discharging, please consult Nichicon.
If excess a rush current due to drastic charge/dis-charge was applied to conductive polymer aluminum solid
electrolytic capacitors, and conductive polymer hybrid aluminum electrolytic capacitors, it may cause a short circuit or
an increase in leakage current. Therefore, Please do not apply a rush current that is larger than 10A.
So if you're using the conductive polymer type, that's a clear danger. Tantalums also have a well-known propensity to self-immolate if subjected to excessive transient current.
answered Dec 17 at 12:54
Spehro Pefhany
202k4148404
add a comment |
The possibility certainly exists, depending on how the current distributes within the cap and how much energy is suddenly converted to heat inside the cap- and there are capacitors designed for pulse discharge applications, such as photoflash, but even there there is some series resistance and inductance to limit the current.
The place to look would be in the application data (probably not the datasheet) for your model of capacitor. For example, the Nichicon Application Guideline document cautions (emphasis added):
- In the equipment
( 1 ) Do not directly touch terminal by hand.
( 2 ) Do not short between terminals with conductor, nor spill conductible liquid such as alkaline or acidic solution on or
near the capacitor.
And also
5) For a circuit that repeats rapid charging / discharging of electricity, an appropriate capacitor that is capable of enduring
such a condition must be used. Welding machines and photo flash are a few examples of products that contain such a
circuit. In addition, rapid charging / discharging may be repeated in control circuits for servomotors, In which the
circuit voltage fluctuates substantially.
For appropriate choice of capacitors for circuit that repeat rapid charging / discharging, please consult Nichicon.
If excess a rush current due to drastic charge/dis-charge was applied to conductive polymer aluminum solid
electrolytic capacitors, and conductive polymer hybrid aluminum electrolytic capacitors, it may cause a short circuit or
an increase in leakage current. Therefore, Please do not apply a rush current that is larger than 10A.
So if you're using the conductive polymer type, that's a clear danger. Tantalums also have a well-known propensity to self-immolate if subjected to excessive transient current.
answered Dec 17 at 12:54
Spehro Pefhany
202k4148404
add a comment |
The possibility certainly exists, depending on how the current distributes within the cap and how much energy is suddenly converted to heat inside the cap- and there are capacitors designed for pulse discharge applications, such as photoflash, but even there there is some series resistance and inductance to limit the current.
The place to look would be in the application data (probably not the datasheet) for your model of capacitor. For example, the Nichicon Application Guideline document cautions (emphasis added):
- In the equipment
( 1 ) Do not directly touch terminal by hand.
( 2 ) Do not short between terminals with conductor, nor spill conductible liquid such as alkaline or acidic solution on or
near the capacitor.
And also
5) For a circuit that repeats rapid charging / discharging of electricity, an appropriate capacitor that is capable of enduring
such a condition must be used. Welding machines and photo flash are a few examples of products that contain such a
circuit. In addition, rapid charging / discharging may be repeated in control circuits for servomotors, In which the
circuit voltage fluctuates substantially.
For appropriate choice of capacitors for circuit that repeat rapid charging / discharging, please consult Nichicon.
If excess a rush current due to drastic charge/dis-charge was applied to conductive polymer aluminum solid
electrolytic capacitors, and conductive polymer hybrid aluminum electrolytic capacitors, it may cause a short circuit or
an increase in leakage current. Therefore, Please do not apply a rush current that is larger than 10A.
So if you're using the conductive polymer type, that's a clear danger. Tantalums also have a well-known propensity to self-immolate if subjected to excessive transient current.
answered Dec 17 at 12:54
Spehro Pefhany
202k4148404
The possibility certainly exists, depending on how the current distributes within the cap and how much energy is suddenly converted to heat inside the cap- and there are capacitors designed for pulse discharge applications, such as photoflash, but even there there is some series resistance and inductance to limit the current.
The place to look would be in the application data (probably not the datasheet) for your model of capacitor. For example, the Nichicon Application Guideline document cautions (emphasis added):
- In the equipment
( 1 ) Do not directly touch terminal by hand.
( 2 ) Do not short between terminals with conductor, nor spill conductible liquid such as alkaline or acidic solution on or
near the capacitor.
And also
5) For a circuit that repeats rapid charging / discharging of electricity, an appropriate capacitor that is capable of enduring
such a condition must be used. Welding machines and photo flash are a few examples of products that contain such a
circuit. In addition, rapid charging / discharging may be repeated in control circuits for servomotors, In which the
circuit voltage fluctuates substantially.
For appropriate choice of capacitors for circuit that repeat rapid charging / discharging, please consult Nichicon.
If excess a rush current due to drastic charge/dis-charge was applied to conductive polymer aluminum solid
electrolytic capacitors, and conductive polymer hybrid aluminum electrolytic capacitors, it may cause a short circuit or
an increase in leakage current. Therefore, Please do not apply a rush current that is larger than 10A.
So if you're using the conductive polymer type, that's a clear danger. Tantalums also have a well-known propensity to self-immolate if subjected to excessive transient current.
answered Dec 17 at 12:54
Spehro Pefhany
202k4148404
answered Dec 17 at 12:54
Spehro Pefhany
202k4148404
answered Dec 17 at 12:54
Spehro Pefhany
202k4148404
answered Dec 17 at 12:54
Spehro Pefhany
202k4148404
202k4148404
add a comment |
add a comment |
This is clearly a bad practice considering the potential damage to the capacitor, to the board and to the screw driver. Not talking about the stress when the spark occurs : ) In our lab, we have built cheap "dischargers" made of a 3-W/1-k resistor isolated with some heat-shrink tubing as the below picture shows. It is easy to handle and you painlessly reduce the bulk capacitor voltage to a safe value in 1 second or so. Highly recommended if you deal with high-voltage boards!
answered Dec 17 at 16:40
Verbal Kint
3,0701311
1
Be careful using those cement wirewound resistors in high pulse power applications, I've been rather successful in getting them to explode. The shrink wrap might contain it, but I wouldn't want fingers there. If you keep peak power within a small multiple of the steady state power rating it ought to be fine.
– Spehro Pefhany
Dec 17 at 17:04
Hello, well, we use this principle for 20+ years on ac-dc power supplies with 400-V charged bulk caps in PFC stages and never had a problem. It can of course be different in some of the applications you mentioned but I don't have the experience with those then.
– Verbal Kint
Dec 17 at 17:09
2
You probably used the 10K shown, and not say 10 ohms. ;-)
– Spehro Pefhany
Dec 17 at 17:10
1
Yes, 1 to 10 kohms is fine but certainly not 10 ohms : )
– Verbal Kint
Dec 17 at 17:11
add a comment |
This is clearly a bad practice considering the potential damage to the capacitor, to the board and to the screw driver. Not talking about the stress when the spark occurs : ) In our lab, we have built cheap "dischargers" made of a 3-W/1-k resistor isolated with some heat-shrink tubing as the below picture shows. It is easy to handle and you painlessly reduce the bulk capacitor voltage to a safe value in 1 second or so. Highly recommended if you deal with high-voltage boards!
answered Dec 17 at 16:40
Verbal Kint
3,0701311
1
Be careful using those cement wirewound resistors in high pulse power applications, I've been rather successful in getting them to explode. The shrink wrap might contain it, but I wouldn't want fingers there. If you keep peak power within a small multiple of the steady state power rating it ought to be fine.
– Spehro Pefhany
Dec 17 at 17:04
Hello, well, we use this principle for 20+ years on ac-dc power supplies with 400-V charged bulk caps in PFC stages and never had a problem. It can of course be different in some of the applications you mentioned but I don't have the experience with those then.
– Verbal Kint
Dec 17 at 17:09
2
You probably used the 10K shown, and not say 10 ohms. ;-)
– Spehro Pefhany
Dec 17 at 17:10
1
Yes, 1 to 10 kohms is fine but certainly not 10 ohms : )
– Verbal Kint
Dec 17 at 17:11
add a comment |
This is clearly a bad practice considering the potential damage to the capacitor, to the board and to the screw driver. Not talking about the stress when the spark occurs : ) In our lab, we have built cheap "dischargers" made of a 3-W/1-k resistor isolated with some heat-shrink tubing as the below picture shows. It is easy to handle and you painlessly reduce the bulk capacitor voltage to a safe value in 1 second or so. Highly recommended if you deal with high-voltage boards!
answered Dec 17 at 16:40
Verbal Kint
3,0701311
This is clearly a bad practice considering the potential damage to the capacitor, to the board and to the screw driver. Not talking about the stress when the spark occurs : ) In our lab, we have built cheap "dischargers" made of a 3-W/1-k resistor isolated with some heat-shrink tubing as the below picture shows. It is easy to handle and you painlessly reduce the bulk capacitor voltage to a safe value in 1 second or so. Highly recommended if you deal with high-voltage boards!
answered Dec 17 at 16:40
Verbal Kint
3,0701311
edited Dec 17 at 17:05
answered Dec 17 at 16:40
Verbal Kint
3,0701311
answered Dec 17 at 16:40
Verbal Kint
3,0701311
answered Dec 17 at 16:40
Verbal Kint
3,0701311
3,0701311
1
Be careful using those cement wirewound resistors in high pulse power applications, I've been rather successful in getting them to explode. The shrink wrap might contain it, but I wouldn't want fingers there. If you keep peak power within a small multiple of the steady state power rating it ought to be fine.
– Spehro Pefhany
Dec 17 at 17:04
Hello, well, we use this principle for 20+ years on ac-dc power supplies with 400-V charged bulk caps in PFC stages and never had a problem. It can of course be different in some of the applications you mentioned but I don't have the experience with those then.
– Verbal Kint
Dec 17 at 17:09
2
You probably used the 10K shown, and not say 10 ohms. ;-)
– Spehro Pefhany
Dec 17 at 17:10
1
Yes, 1 to 10 kohms is fine but certainly not 10 ohms : )
– Verbal Kint
Dec 17 at 17:11
add a comment |
1
Be careful using those cement wirewound resistors in high pulse power applications, I've been rather successful in getting them to explode. The shrink wrap might contain it, but I wouldn't want fingers there. If you keep peak power within a small multiple of the steady state power rating it ought to be fine.
– Spehro Pefhany
Dec 17 at 17:04
Hello, well, we use this principle for 20+ years on ac-dc power supplies with 400-V charged bulk caps in PFC stages and never had a problem. It can of course be different in some of the applications you mentioned but I don't have the experience with those then.
– Verbal Kint
Dec 17 at 17:09
2
You probably used the 10K shown, and not say 10 ohms. ;-)
– Spehro Pefhany
Dec 17 at 17:10
1
Yes, 1 to 10 kohms is fine but certainly not 10 ohms : )
– Verbal Kint
Dec 17 at 17:11
1
1
Be careful using those cement wirewound resistors in high pulse power applications, I've been rather successful in getting them to explode. The shrink wrap might contain it, but I wouldn't want fingers there. If you keep peak power within a small multiple of the steady state power rating it ought to be fine.
– Spehro Pefhany
Dec 17 at 17:04
Be careful using those cement wirewound resistors in high pulse power applications, I've been rather successful in getting them to explode. The shrink wrap might contain it, but I wouldn't want fingers there. If you keep peak power within a small multiple of the steady state power rating it ought to be fine.
– Spehro Pefhany
Dec 17 at 17:04
Hello, well, we use this principle for 20+ years on ac-dc power supplies with 400-V charged bulk caps in PFC stages and never had a problem. It can of course be different in some of the applications you mentioned but I don't have the experience with those then.
– Verbal Kint
Dec 17 at 17:09
Hello, well, we use this principle for 20+ years on ac-dc power supplies with 400-V charged bulk caps in PFC stages and never had a problem. It can of course be different in some of the applications you mentioned but I don't have the experience with those then.
– Verbal Kint
Dec 17 at 17:09
2
2
You probably used the 10K shown, and not say 10 ohms. ;-)
– Spehro Pefhany
Dec 17 at 17:10
You probably used the 10K shown, and not say 10 ohms. ;-)
– Spehro Pefhany
Dec 17 at 17:10
1
1
Yes, 1 to 10 kohms is fine but certainly not 10 ohms : )
– Verbal Kint
Dec 17 at 17:11
Yes, 1 to 10 kohms is fine but certainly not 10 ohms : )
– Verbal Kint
Dec 17 at 17:11
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.
Please pay close attention to the following guidance:
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2felectronics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f412605%2fshorting-a-high-voltage-electrolytic-damaging%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
4
If capacitor has enough pulse current capability, flying bits of molten metal from vaporized screwdriver tip is a hazard to your eyes.
– peufeu
Dec 17 at 13:39
1
Yes, easy to do (I've done it). The point where the pin is crimped to the foil is a weak spot. But if it hasn't happened yet, you may be OK.
– Robert Endl
Dec 17 at 16:08