External USB hard drive and risk of internal condensation?












8














Apparently you can kill a USB hard drive by moving it from a cold to warm environment and powering it up. The killer being internal condensation.



Q1: How real is the risk? What kind of temperatures are we talking about? I don't want to waste time "acclimatizing" my hard drive every day if it's not necessary.



Q2: Are there technologies/solutions available to mitigate the risk?



Surprisingly, I've found nothing useful on the internet that decently answers the above two questions.










share|improve this question




















  • 1




    Depends on the humidity of the place you move it to. No real mitigation when dealing in high humidity environments.
    – Moab
    Jun 30 '15 at 23:51










  • What type of conditions are you planning to expose your hard drive to?
    – CharlieRB
    Jun 30 '15 at 23:52










  • @CharlieRB Potentially as bad as moving from 4C (39F) to 22C (72F). Relative humidity typically between 58% and 90%. None of the environments are air-conditioned in any way, just heating of ambient (outside) air in the offices.
    – misha256
    Jul 1 '15 at 0:27










  • Lol, maybe I can retro-fit my hard drives with a Dew-Sensor and some power logic. Prevent power-on if dew detected: tinyurl.com/qbzfu35. Come to think of it...my father's SLR camera has dew detection. More things need this!
    – misha256
    Jul 1 '15 at 0:34








  • 1




    @misha256 On top of all of that, most of the pathways which make up an SSD circuit all do the same thing at the same voltage (the memory bus lines). So even if you randomly shorted out circuits on purpose, it is still less likely than an HDD to cause permanent problems (can't say your data is going to be safe at all if you did this though).
    – krowe
    Jul 11 '15 at 5:34


















8














Apparently you can kill a USB hard drive by moving it from a cold to warm environment and powering it up. The killer being internal condensation.



Q1: How real is the risk? What kind of temperatures are we talking about? I don't want to waste time "acclimatizing" my hard drive every day if it's not necessary.



Q2: Are there technologies/solutions available to mitigate the risk?



Surprisingly, I've found nothing useful on the internet that decently answers the above two questions.










share|improve this question




















  • 1




    Depends on the humidity of the place you move it to. No real mitigation when dealing in high humidity environments.
    – Moab
    Jun 30 '15 at 23:51










  • What type of conditions are you planning to expose your hard drive to?
    – CharlieRB
    Jun 30 '15 at 23:52










  • @CharlieRB Potentially as bad as moving from 4C (39F) to 22C (72F). Relative humidity typically between 58% and 90%. None of the environments are air-conditioned in any way, just heating of ambient (outside) air in the offices.
    – misha256
    Jul 1 '15 at 0:27










  • Lol, maybe I can retro-fit my hard drives with a Dew-Sensor and some power logic. Prevent power-on if dew detected: tinyurl.com/qbzfu35. Come to think of it...my father's SLR camera has dew detection. More things need this!
    – misha256
    Jul 1 '15 at 0:34








  • 1




    @misha256 On top of all of that, most of the pathways which make up an SSD circuit all do the same thing at the same voltage (the memory bus lines). So even if you randomly shorted out circuits on purpose, it is still less likely than an HDD to cause permanent problems (can't say your data is going to be safe at all if you did this though).
    – krowe
    Jul 11 '15 at 5:34
















8












8








8


2





Apparently you can kill a USB hard drive by moving it from a cold to warm environment and powering it up. The killer being internal condensation.



Q1: How real is the risk? What kind of temperatures are we talking about? I don't want to waste time "acclimatizing" my hard drive every day if it's not necessary.



Q2: Are there technologies/solutions available to mitigate the risk?



Surprisingly, I've found nothing useful on the internet that decently answers the above two questions.










share|improve this question















Apparently you can kill a USB hard drive by moving it from a cold to warm environment and powering it up. The killer being internal condensation.



Q1: How real is the risk? What kind of temperatures are we talking about? I don't want to waste time "acclimatizing" my hard drive every day if it's not necessary.



Q2: Are there technologies/solutions available to mitigate the risk?



Surprisingly, I've found nothing useful on the internet that decently answers the above two questions.







hard-drive external-hard-drive hardware-failure hard-drive-failure physical-environment






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Jul 1 '15 at 2:28

























asked Jun 30 '15 at 23:46









misha256

8,51654061




8,51654061








  • 1




    Depends on the humidity of the place you move it to. No real mitigation when dealing in high humidity environments.
    – Moab
    Jun 30 '15 at 23:51










  • What type of conditions are you planning to expose your hard drive to?
    – CharlieRB
    Jun 30 '15 at 23:52










  • @CharlieRB Potentially as bad as moving from 4C (39F) to 22C (72F). Relative humidity typically between 58% and 90%. None of the environments are air-conditioned in any way, just heating of ambient (outside) air in the offices.
    – misha256
    Jul 1 '15 at 0:27










  • Lol, maybe I can retro-fit my hard drives with a Dew-Sensor and some power logic. Prevent power-on if dew detected: tinyurl.com/qbzfu35. Come to think of it...my father's SLR camera has dew detection. More things need this!
    – misha256
    Jul 1 '15 at 0:34








  • 1




    @misha256 On top of all of that, most of the pathways which make up an SSD circuit all do the same thing at the same voltage (the memory bus lines). So even if you randomly shorted out circuits on purpose, it is still less likely than an HDD to cause permanent problems (can't say your data is going to be safe at all if you did this though).
    – krowe
    Jul 11 '15 at 5:34
















  • 1




    Depends on the humidity of the place you move it to. No real mitigation when dealing in high humidity environments.
    – Moab
    Jun 30 '15 at 23:51










  • What type of conditions are you planning to expose your hard drive to?
    – CharlieRB
    Jun 30 '15 at 23:52










  • @CharlieRB Potentially as bad as moving from 4C (39F) to 22C (72F). Relative humidity typically between 58% and 90%. None of the environments are air-conditioned in any way, just heating of ambient (outside) air in the offices.
    – misha256
    Jul 1 '15 at 0:27










  • Lol, maybe I can retro-fit my hard drives with a Dew-Sensor and some power logic. Prevent power-on if dew detected: tinyurl.com/qbzfu35. Come to think of it...my father's SLR camera has dew detection. More things need this!
    – misha256
    Jul 1 '15 at 0:34








  • 1




    @misha256 On top of all of that, most of the pathways which make up an SSD circuit all do the same thing at the same voltage (the memory bus lines). So even if you randomly shorted out circuits on purpose, it is still less likely than an HDD to cause permanent problems (can't say your data is going to be safe at all if you did this though).
    – krowe
    Jul 11 '15 at 5:34










1




1




Depends on the humidity of the place you move it to. No real mitigation when dealing in high humidity environments.
– Moab
Jun 30 '15 at 23:51




Depends on the humidity of the place you move it to. No real mitigation when dealing in high humidity environments.
– Moab
Jun 30 '15 at 23:51












What type of conditions are you planning to expose your hard drive to?
– CharlieRB
Jun 30 '15 at 23:52




What type of conditions are you planning to expose your hard drive to?
– CharlieRB
Jun 30 '15 at 23:52












@CharlieRB Potentially as bad as moving from 4C (39F) to 22C (72F). Relative humidity typically between 58% and 90%. None of the environments are air-conditioned in any way, just heating of ambient (outside) air in the offices.
– misha256
Jul 1 '15 at 0:27




@CharlieRB Potentially as bad as moving from 4C (39F) to 22C (72F). Relative humidity typically between 58% and 90%. None of the environments are air-conditioned in any way, just heating of ambient (outside) air in the offices.
– misha256
Jul 1 '15 at 0:27












Lol, maybe I can retro-fit my hard drives with a Dew-Sensor and some power logic. Prevent power-on if dew detected: tinyurl.com/qbzfu35. Come to think of it...my father's SLR camera has dew detection. More things need this!
– misha256
Jul 1 '15 at 0:34






Lol, maybe I can retro-fit my hard drives with a Dew-Sensor and some power logic. Prevent power-on if dew detected: tinyurl.com/qbzfu35. Come to think of it...my father's SLR camera has dew detection. More things need this!
– misha256
Jul 1 '15 at 0:34






1




1




@misha256 On top of all of that, most of the pathways which make up an SSD circuit all do the same thing at the same voltage (the memory bus lines). So even if you randomly shorted out circuits on purpose, it is still less likely than an HDD to cause permanent problems (can't say your data is going to be safe at all if you did this though).
– krowe
Jul 11 '15 at 5:34






@misha256 On top of all of that, most of the pathways which make up an SSD circuit all do the same thing at the same voltage (the memory bus lines). So even if you randomly shorted out circuits on purpose, it is still less likely than an HDD to cause permanent problems (can't say your data is going to be safe at all if you did this though).
– krowe
Jul 11 '15 at 5:34












4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















8





+150









Condensation is a real danger for hard disks.



You can see in a real-life youtube demonstration of a data-recovery
specialist, what a hard disk looks like when taken out of the freezer and briefly turned on, just full of scratches :



scratched disk



Such scratches could possibly damage the disk to a point that even a data-recovery
specialist will be unable to recover the data.



A Control Data (later Seagate) factory packaging manual for hard disks says:




If you have just received or removed this unit from a climate with
temperatures at or below 50°F (10°C) do not open this container until
the following conditions are met, otherwise condensation could occur
and damage to the device and/or media may result. Place this package
in the operating environment for the time duration according to the
temperature chart.




acclimatizing times



It seems that dangerously low temperatures start when the computer is brought
from below 50°F (10°C) into room-temperature, and it may need several hours for
acclimatization.
This long time is explained by the fact that in a mechanical disk, the head is
supported by airflow entering through special air-intakes.
These intakes are heavily filtered against dust, but not against humidity.
They are also small enough, which slows the evaporation process of internal
humidity.



You could possibly minimize the acclimatization time by wrapping the disk
in watertight plastic while it is acclimatizing,
to reduce the humidity that would enter via the air-intakes.
You should allow for some drying-off time after unwrapping the disk, for the humidity
in the air already contained inside the disk.



This is not the only danger, as explained by data-recovery specialist
ReWave Recovery :




A hard drive is at risk for sudden temperature changes including
overheating and condensation.



A sudden change in temperature that causes condensation inside the
hard drive can cause the material on the platter to evaporate which
causes the read/write heads to stick to the platter and stop it from
rotating.



Overheating can also be an issue. Overheating can cause the platters
to expand which makes the read/write heads travel farther to read the
data. The expansion of platters can cause friction which can lead to a
head crash.







share|improve this answer































    2














    I checked PDF on Seagate(can't find much info on WD), and find some interesting info. Its for laptop HDD, the one inside portable external USB drive.



    According to the PDF(1, 2), the hard drive can operate at 0-60C and a relative humidity of 5-90%. However Seagate also limits the gradient, the temperature gradient is 20 or 30C/h, humidity is 30%/h.



    So according to these PDF, if your HDD is Seagate, temperature wise, it should be safe, for humidity, it varies from 58% to 90%, considering its the extreme case and just a little over 30% I wouldn't worry much then.






    share|improve this answer





























      1














      Answer to Q1: You will not face any internal condensation as long as you are moving a recently used hdd.



      If you have left it untouched for a while and suddenly moved it to a warmer environment and also started using it immediately, you may face the risk from condensation issue.



      Answer to Q2: I don't see the requirement for a dry box to store a unused hdd. To operate it you need to take it out. As long as your portable has a good casing I don't see any real risk with a regularly used hdd.






      share|improve this answer





























        0














        don't guess. do hard disk error checking, set it to automatically fix file system errors and set scan for and attempt recovery of bad sectors. and then never do this again, let it sit for a few hours after coming in from the cold






        share|improve this answer





















        • The OP didn't say that they did it. They only wanted to know if the risk is real so they could avoid it.
          – fixer1234
          Dec 1 at 11:42











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        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes








        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        8





        +150









        Condensation is a real danger for hard disks.



        You can see in a real-life youtube demonstration of a data-recovery
        specialist, what a hard disk looks like when taken out of the freezer and briefly turned on, just full of scratches :



        scratched disk



        Such scratches could possibly damage the disk to a point that even a data-recovery
        specialist will be unable to recover the data.



        A Control Data (later Seagate) factory packaging manual for hard disks says:




        If you have just received or removed this unit from a climate with
        temperatures at or below 50°F (10°C) do not open this container until
        the following conditions are met, otherwise condensation could occur
        and damage to the device and/or media may result. Place this package
        in the operating environment for the time duration according to the
        temperature chart.




        acclimatizing times



        It seems that dangerously low temperatures start when the computer is brought
        from below 50°F (10°C) into room-temperature, and it may need several hours for
        acclimatization.
        This long time is explained by the fact that in a mechanical disk, the head is
        supported by airflow entering through special air-intakes.
        These intakes are heavily filtered against dust, but not against humidity.
        They are also small enough, which slows the evaporation process of internal
        humidity.



        You could possibly minimize the acclimatization time by wrapping the disk
        in watertight plastic while it is acclimatizing,
        to reduce the humidity that would enter via the air-intakes.
        You should allow for some drying-off time after unwrapping the disk, for the humidity
        in the air already contained inside the disk.



        This is not the only danger, as explained by data-recovery specialist
        ReWave Recovery :




        A hard drive is at risk for sudden temperature changes including
        overheating and condensation.



        A sudden change in temperature that causes condensation inside the
        hard drive can cause the material on the platter to evaporate which
        causes the read/write heads to stick to the platter and stop it from
        rotating.



        Overheating can also be an issue. Overheating can cause the platters
        to expand which makes the read/write heads travel farther to read the
        data. The expansion of platters can cause friction which can lead to a
        head crash.







        share|improve this answer




























          8





          +150









          Condensation is a real danger for hard disks.



          You can see in a real-life youtube demonstration of a data-recovery
          specialist, what a hard disk looks like when taken out of the freezer and briefly turned on, just full of scratches :



          scratched disk



          Such scratches could possibly damage the disk to a point that even a data-recovery
          specialist will be unable to recover the data.



          A Control Data (later Seagate) factory packaging manual for hard disks says:




          If you have just received or removed this unit from a climate with
          temperatures at or below 50°F (10°C) do not open this container until
          the following conditions are met, otherwise condensation could occur
          and damage to the device and/or media may result. Place this package
          in the operating environment for the time duration according to the
          temperature chart.




          acclimatizing times



          It seems that dangerously low temperatures start when the computer is brought
          from below 50°F (10°C) into room-temperature, and it may need several hours for
          acclimatization.
          This long time is explained by the fact that in a mechanical disk, the head is
          supported by airflow entering through special air-intakes.
          These intakes are heavily filtered against dust, but not against humidity.
          They are also small enough, which slows the evaporation process of internal
          humidity.



          You could possibly minimize the acclimatization time by wrapping the disk
          in watertight plastic while it is acclimatizing,
          to reduce the humidity that would enter via the air-intakes.
          You should allow for some drying-off time after unwrapping the disk, for the humidity
          in the air already contained inside the disk.



          This is not the only danger, as explained by data-recovery specialist
          ReWave Recovery :




          A hard drive is at risk for sudden temperature changes including
          overheating and condensation.



          A sudden change in temperature that causes condensation inside the
          hard drive can cause the material on the platter to evaporate which
          causes the read/write heads to stick to the platter and stop it from
          rotating.



          Overheating can also be an issue. Overheating can cause the platters
          to expand which makes the read/write heads travel farther to read the
          data. The expansion of platters can cause friction which can lead to a
          head crash.







          share|improve this answer


























            8





            +150







            8





            +150



            8




            +150




            Condensation is a real danger for hard disks.



            You can see in a real-life youtube demonstration of a data-recovery
            specialist, what a hard disk looks like when taken out of the freezer and briefly turned on, just full of scratches :



            scratched disk



            Such scratches could possibly damage the disk to a point that even a data-recovery
            specialist will be unable to recover the data.



            A Control Data (later Seagate) factory packaging manual for hard disks says:




            If you have just received or removed this unit from a climate with
            temperatures at or below 50°F (10°C) do not open this container until
            the following conditions are met, otherwise condensation could occur
            and damage to the device and/or media may result. Place this package
            in the operating environment for the time duration according to the
            temperature chart.




            acclimatizing times



            It seems that dangerously low temperatures start when the computer is brought
            from below 50°F (10°C) into room-temperature, and it may need several hours for
            acclimatization.
            This long time is explained by the fact that in a mechanical disk, the head is
            supported by airflow entering through special air-intakes.
            These intakes are heavily filtered against dust, but not against humidity.
            They are also small enough, which slows the evaporation process of internal
            humidity.



            You could possibly minimize the acclimatization time by wrapping the disk
            in watertight plastic while it is acclimatizing,
            to reduce the humidity that would enter via the air-intakes.
            You should allow for some drying-off time after unwrapping the disk, for the humidity
            in the air already contained inside the disk.



            This is not the only danger, as explained by data-recovery specialist
            ReWave Recovery :




            A hard drive is at risk for sudden temperature changes including
            overheating and condensation.



            A sudden change in temperature that causes condensation inside the
            hard drive can cause the material on the platter to evaporate which
            causes the read/write heads to stick to the platter and stop it from
            rotating.



            Overheating can also be an issue. Overheating can cause the platters
            to expand which makes the read/write heads travel farther to read the
            data. The expansion of platters can cause friction which can lead to a
            head crash.







            share|improve this answer














            Condensation is a real danger for hard disks.



            You can see in a real-life youtube demonstration of a data-recovery
            specialist, what a hard disk looks like when taken out of the freezer and briefly turned on, just full of scratches :



            scratched disk



            Such scratches could possibly damage the disk to a point that even a data-recovery
            specialist will be unable to recover the data.



            A Control Data (later Seagate) factory packaging manual for hard disks says:




            If you have just received or removed this unit from a climate with
            temperatures at or below 50°F (10°C) do not open this container until
            the following conditions are met, otherwise condensation could occur
            and damage to the device and/or media may result. Place this package
            in the operating environment for the time duration according to the
            temperature chart.




            acclimatizing times



            It seems that dangerously low temperatures start when the computer is brought
            from below 50°F (10°C) into room-temperature, and it may need several hours for
            acclimatization.
            This long time is explained by the fact that in a mechanical disk, the head is
            supported by airflow entering through special air-intakes.
            These intakes are heavily filtered against dust, but not against humidity.
            They are also small enough, which slows the evaporation process of internal
            humidity.



            You could possibly minimize the acclimatization time by wrapping the disk
            in watertight plastic while it is acclimatizing,
            to reduce the humidity that would enter via the air-intakes.
            You should allow for some drying-off time after unwrapping the disk, for the humidity
            in the air already contained inside the disk.



            This is not the only danger, as explained by data-recovery specialist
            ReWave Recovery :




            A hard drive is at risk for sudden temperature changes including
            overheating and condensation.



            A sudden change in temperature that causes condensation inside the
            hard drive can cause the material on the platter to evaporate which
            causes the read/write heads to stick to the platter and stop it from
            rotating.



            Overheating can also be an issue. Overheating can cause the platters
            to expand which makes the read/write heads travel farther to read the
            data. The expansion of platters can cause friction which can lead to a
            head crash.








            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited Jul 8 '15 at 8:40

























            answered Jul 4 '15 at 15:05









            harrymc

            252k12259560




            252k12259560

























                2














                I checked PDF on Seagate(can't find much info on WD), and find some interesting info. Its for laptop HDD, the one inside portable external USB drive.



                According to the PDF(1, 2), the hard drive can operate at 0-60C and a relative humidity of 5-90%. However Seagate also limits the gradient, the temperature gradient is 20 or 30C/h, humidity is 30%/h.



                So according to these PDF, if your HDD is Seagate, temperature wise, it should be safe, for humidity, it varies from 58% to 90%, considering its the extreme case and just a little over 30% I wouldn't worry much then.






                share|improve this answer


























                  2














                  I checked PDF on Seagate(can't find much info on WD), and find some interesting info. Its for laptop HDD, the one inside portable external USB drive.



                  According to the PDF(1, 2), the hard drive can operate at 0-60C and a relative humidity of 5-90%. However Seagate also limits the gradient, the temperature gradient is 20 or 30C/h, humidity is 30%/h.



                  So according to these PDF, if your HDD is Seagate, temperature wise, it should be safe, for humidity, it varies from 58% to 90%, considering its the extreme case and just a little over 30% I wouldn't worry much then.






                  share|improve this answer
























                    2












                    2








                    2






                    I checked PDF on Seagate(can't find much info on WD), and find some interesting info. Its for laptop HDD, the one inside portable external USB drive.



                    According to the PDF(1, 2), the hard drive can operate at 0-60C and a relative humidity of 5-90%. However Seagate also limits the gradient, the temperature gradient is 20 or 30C/h, humidity is 30%/h.



                    So according to these PDF, if your HDD is Seagate, temperature wise, it should be safe, for humidity, it varies from 58% to 90%, considering its the extreme case and just a little over 30% I wouldn't worry much then.






                    share|improve this answer












                    I checked PDF on Seagate(can't find much info on WD), and find some interesting info. Its for laptop HDD, the one inside portable external USB drive.



                    According to the PDF(1, 2), the hard drive can operate at 0-60C and a relative humidity of 5-90%. However Seagate also limits the gradient, the temperature gradient is 20 or 30C/h, humidity is 30%/h.



                    So according to these PDF, if your HDD is Seagate, temperature wise, it should be safe, for humidity, it varies from 58% to 90%, considering its the extreme case and just a little over 30% I wouldn't worry much then.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered Jul 3 '15 at 7:58









                    Chris.C

                    99846




                    99846























                        1














                        Answer to Q1: You will not face any internal condensation as long as you are moving a recently used hdd.



                        If you have left it untouched for a while and suddenly moved it to a warmer environment and also started using it immediately, you may face the risk from condensation issue.



                        Answer to Q2: I don't see the requirement for a dry box to store a unused hdd. To operate it you need to take it out. As long as your portable has a good casing I don't see any real risk with a regularly used hdd.






                        share|improve this answer


























                          1














                          Answer to Q1: You will not face any internal condensation as long as you are moving a recently used hdd.



                          If you have left it untouched for a while and suddenly moved it to a warmer environment and also started using it immediately, you may face the risk from condensation issue.



                          Answer to Q2: I don't see the requirement for a dry box to store a unused hdd. To operate it you need to take it out. As long as your portable has a good casing I don't see any real risk with a regularly used hdd.






                          share|improve this answer
























                            1












                            1








                            1






                            Answer to Q1: You will not face any internal condensation as long as you are moving a recently used hdd.



                            If you have left it untouched for a while and suddenly moved it to a warmer environment and also started using it immediately, you may face the risk from condensation issue.



                            Answer to Q2: I don't see the requirement for a dry box to store a unused hdd. To operate it you need to take it out. As long as your portable has a good casing I don't see any real risk with a regularly used hdd.






                            share|improve this answer












                            Answer to Q1: You will not face any internal condensation as long as you are moving a recently used hdd.



                            If you have left it untouched for a while and suddenly moved it to a warmer environment and also started using it immediately, you may face the risk from condensation issue.



                            Answer to Q2: I don't see the requirement for a dry box to store a unused hdd. To operate it you need to take it out. As long as your portable has a good casing I don't see any real risk with a regularly used hdd.







                            share|improve this answer












                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer










                            answered Jul 7 '15 at 13:28









                            Gautam Jose

                            1287




                            1287























                                0














                                don't guess. do hard disk error checking, set it to automatically fix file system errors and set scan for and attempt recovery of bad sectors. and then never do this again, let it sit for a few hours after coming in from the cold






                                share|improve this answer





















                                • The OP didn't say that they did it. They only wanted to know if the risk is real so they could avoid it.
                                  – fixer1234
                                  Dec 1 at 11:42
















                                0














                                don't guess. do hard disk error checking, set it to automatically fix file system errors and set scan for and attempt recovery of bad sectors. and then never do this again, let it sit for a few hours after coming in from the cold






                                share|improve this answer





















                                • The OP didn't say that they did it. They only wanted to know if the risk is real so they could avoid it.
                                  – fixer1234
                                  Dec 1 at 11:42














                                0












                                0








                                0






                                don't guess. do hard disk error checking, set it to automatically fix file system errors and set scan for and attempt recovery of bad sectors. and then never do this again, let it sit for a few hours after coming in from the cold






                                share|improve this answer












                                don't guess. do hard disk error checking, set it to automatically fix file system errors and set scan for and attempt recovery of bad sectors. and then never do this again, let it sit for a few hours after coming in from the cold







                                share|improve this answer












                                share|improve this answer



                                share|improve this answer










                                answered Dec 1 at 11:20









                                Bruce

                                1




                                1












                                • The OP didn't say that they did it. They only wanted to know if the risk is real so they could avoid it.
                                  – fixer1234
                                  Dec 1 at 11:42


















                                • The OP didn't say that they did it. They only wanted to know if the risk is real so they could avoid it.
                                  – fixer1234
                                  Dec 1 at 11:42
















                                The OP didn't say that they did it. They only wanted to know if the risk is real so they could avoid it.
                                – fixer1234
                                Dec 1 at 11:42




                                The OP didn't say that they did it. They only wanted to know if the risk is real so they could avoid it.
                                – fixer1234
                                Dec 1 at 11:42


















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