What force causes entropy to increase?












1












$begingroup$


What force causes entropy to increase?



I realize that the second law of thermodynamics requires the entropy of a system to increase over time. For example, gas stored in a canister, if opened inside a vacuum chamber, will expand to fill the chamber.



But I’m not clear on what force, exactly, is acting upon the molecules of gas that causes them to fly out of the opened canister and fill the chamber.



Just looking for a concise explanation as to what is going on at the fundamental level, since obviously, the second law of thermodynamics is not a force and therefore does not cause anything to happen.






thermodynamics laws-of-physics







share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    If you know it isn't a force then why are you asking what the force is?
    $endgroup$
    – Aaron Stevens
    4 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Entropy doesn’t have inertia, as far as I know.
    $endgroup$
    – Dale
    2 hours ago
















1












$begingroup$


What force causes entropy to increase?



I realize that the second law of thermodynamics requires the entropy of a system to increase over time. For example, gas stored in a canister, if opened inside a vacuum chamber, will expand to fill the chamber.



But I’m not clear on what force, exactly, is acting upon the molecules of gas that causes them to fly out of the opened canister and fill the chamber.



Just looking for a concise explanation as to what is going on at the fundamental level, since obviously, the second law of thermodynamics is not a force and therefore does not cause anything to happen.






thermodynamics laws-of-physics







share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    If you know it isn't a force then why are you asking what the force is?
    $endgroup$
    – Aaron Stevens
    4 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Entropy doesn’t have inertia, as far as I know.
    $endgroup$
    – Dale
    2 hours ago














1












1








1





$begingroup$


What force causes entropy to increase?



I realize that the second law of thermodynamics requires the entropy of a system to increase over time. For example, gas stored in a canister, if opened inside a vacuum chamber, will expand to fill the chamber.



But I’m not clear on what force, exactly, is acting upon the molecules of gas that causes them to fly out of the opened canister and fill the chamber.



Just looking for a concise explanation as to what is going on at the fundamental level, since obviously, the second law of thermodynamics is not a force and therefore does not cause anything to happen.






thermodynamics laws-of-physics







share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$




What force causes entropy to increase?



I realize that the second law of thermodynamics requires the entropy of a system to increase over time. For example, gas stored in a canister, if opened inside a vacuum chamber, will expand to fill the chamber.



But I’m not clear on what force, exactly, is acting upon the molecules of gas that causes them to fly out of the opened canister and fill the chamber.



Just looking for a concise explanation as to what is going on at the fundamental level, since obviously, the second law of thermodynamics is not a force and therefore does not cause anything to happen.






thermodynamics laws-of-physics




thermodynamics laws-of-physics






share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question











share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question










asked 5 hours ago









CommaToastCommaToast

24029




24029








  • 3




    $begingroup$
    If you know it isn't a force then why are you asking what the force is?
    $endgroup$
    – Aaron Stevens
    4 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Entropy doesn’t have inertia, as far as I know.
    $endgroup$
    – Dale
    2 hours ago














  • 3




    $begingroup$
    If you know it isn't a force then why are you asking what the force is?
    $endgroup$
    – Aaron Stevens
    4 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Entropy doesn’t have inertia, as far as I know.
    $endgroup$
    – Dale
    2 hours ago








3




3




$begingroup$
If you know it isn't a force then why are you asking what the force is?
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
4 hours ago




$begingroup$
If you know it isn't a force then why are you asking what the force is?
$endgroup$
– Aaron Stevens
4 hours ago




1




1




$begingroup$
Entropy doesn’t have inertia, as far as I know.
$endgroup$
– Dale
2 hours ago




$begingroup$
Entropy doesn’t have inertia, as far as I know.
$endgroup$
– Dale
2 hours ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















3












$begingroup$

This might not be as detailed as you want, but really all the second law says is that the most likely thing will happen. The reason we can associate certainty with something that seems random is because when we are looking at systems with such a large number of particles, states, etc. anything that is not the most likely is essentially so unlikely that we would have to wait for times longer than he age of the universe to observe them to happen by chance.



Therefore, as you say in your last paragraph, there is no force associated with entropy increase. It's just a statement of how systems will move towards more likely configurations.



For the specific example you give of Joule expansion the (classical) gas molecules are just moving around according to Newton's laws as they collide with each other and the walls of the container. There is no force "telling" the gas to expand to the rest of the container. It's just most likely that we will end up with a uniform gas concentration in the container.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$





















    1












    $begingroup$

    From your question, it seems that you call force whatever may be considered as a cause of something happening. However, this it is not the way the concept of force is used in Physics nowadays.



    For instance, after Galilei, the uniform motion of a free body far from any other system is an process which does not require a force to happen. At variance, it is the fingerprint of the absence of a net force, according to the Newton's definition of force.



    The case of the canister is similar. It is the "closed" configuration which implies the presence of a force to constrain the gas molecules to remain inside. When you remove the constrain (open the canister) motion of molecules continues without the confining force. The result is their diffusion in the whole available volume just because that is the most probable macroscopic configuration.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$














      Your Answer





      StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
      return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
      StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
      StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
      });
      });
      }, "mathjax-editing");

      StackExchange.ready(function() {
      var channelOptions = {
      tags: "".split(" "),
      id: "151"
      };
      initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

      StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
      // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
      if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
      StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
      createEditor();
      });
      }
      else {
      createEditor();
      }
      });

      function createEditor() {
      StackExchange.prepareEditor({
      heartbeatType: 'answer',
      autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
      convertImagesToLinks: false,
      noModals: true,
      showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
      reputationToPostImages: null,
      bindNavPrevention: true,
      postfix: "",
      imageUploader: {
      brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
      contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
      allowUrls: true
      },
      noCode: true, onDemand: true,
      discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
      ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
      });


      }
      });














      draft saved

      draft discarded


















      StackExchange.ready(
      function () {
      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fphysics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f472159%2fwhat-force-causes-entropy-to-increase%23new-answer', 'question_page');
      }
      );

      Post as a guest















      Required, but never shown

























      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes








      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      3












      $begingroup$

      This might not be as detailed as you want, but really all the second law says is that the most likely thing will happen. The reason we can associate certainty with something that seems random is because when we are looking at systems with such a large number of particles, states, etc. anything that is not the most likely is essentially so unlikely that we would have to wait for times longer than he age of the universe to observe them to happen by chance.



      Therefore, as you say in your last paragraph, there is no force associated with entropy increase. It's just a statement of how systems will move towards more likely configurations.



      For the specific example you give of Joule expansion the (classical) gas molecules are just moving around according to Newton's laws as they collide with each other and the walls of the container. There is no force "telling" the gas to expand to the rest of the container. It's just most likely that we will end up with a uniform gas concentration in the container.






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$


















        3












        $begingroup$

        This might not be as detailed as you want, but really all the second law says is that the most likely thing will happen. The reason we can associate certainty with something that seems random is because when we are looking at systems with such a large number of particles, states, etc. anything that is not the most likely is essentially so unlikely that we would have to wait for times longer than he age of the universe to observe them to happen by chance.



        Therefore, as you say in your last paragraph, there is no force associated with entropy increase. It's just a statement of how systems will move towards more likely configurations.



        For the specific example you give of Joule expansion the (classical) gas molecules are just moving around according to Newton's laws as they collide with each other and the walls of the container. There is no force "telling" the gas to expand to the rest of the container. It's just most likely that we will end up with a uniform gas concentration in the container.






        share|cite|improve this answer











        $endgroup$
















          3












          3








          3





          $begingroup$

          This might not be as detailed as you want, but really all the second law says is that the most likely thing will happen. The reason we can associate certainty with something that seems random is because when we are looking at systems with such a large number of particles, states, etc. anything that is not the most likely is essentially so unlikely that we would have to wait for times longer than he age of the universe to observe them to happen by chance.



          Therefore, as you say in your last paragraph, there is no force associated with entropy increase. It's just a statement of how systems will move towards more likely configurations.



          For the specific example you give of Joule expansion the (classical) gas molecules are just moving around according to Newton's laws as they collide with each other and the walls of the container. There is no force "telling" the gas to expand to the rest of the container. It's just most likely that we will end up with a uniform gas concentration in the container.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          This might not be as detailed as you want, but really all the second law says is that the most likely thing will happen. The reason we can associate certainty with something that seems random is because when we are looking at systems with such a large number of particles, states, etc. anything that is not the most likely is essentially so unlikely that we would have to wait for times longer than he age of the universe to observe them to happen by chance.



          Therefore, as you say in your last paragraph, there is no force associated with entropy increase. It's just a statement of how systems will move towards more likely configurations.



          For the specific example you give of Joule expansion the (classical) gas molecules are just moving around according to Newton's laws as they collide with each other and the walls of the container. There is no force "telling" the gas to expand to the rest of the container. It's just most likely that we will end up with a uniform gas concentration in the container.







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited 4 hours ago

























          answered 4 hours ago









          Aaron StevensAaron Stevens

          15.2k42454




          15.2k42454























              1












              $begingroup$

              From your question, it seems that you call force whatever may be considered as a cause of something happening. However, this it is not the way the concept of force is used in Physics nowadays.



              For instance, after Galilei, the uniform motion of a free body far from any other system is an process which does not require a force to happen. At variance, it is the fingerprint of the absence of a net force, according to the Newton's definition of force.



              The case of the canister is similar. It is the "closed" configuration which implies the presence of a force to constrain the gas molecules to remain inside. When you remove the constrain (open the canister) motion of molecules continues without the confining force. The result is their diffusion in the whole available volume just because that is the most probable macroscopic configuration.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$


















                1












                $begingroup$

                From your question, it seems that you call force whatever may be considered as a cause of something happening. However, this it is not the way the concept of force is used in Physics nowadays.



                For instance, after Galilei, the uniform motion of a free body far from any other system is an process which does not require a force to happen. At variance, it is the fingerprint of the absence of a net force, according to the Newton's definition of force.



                The case of the canister is similar. It is the "closed" configuration which implies the presence of a force to constrain the gas molecules to remain inside. When you remove the constrain (open the canister) motion of molecules continues without the confining force. The result is their diffusion in the whole available volume just because that is the most probable macroscopic configuration.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$
















                  1












                  1








                  1





                  $begingroup$

                  From your question, it seems that you call force whatever may be considered as a cause of something happening. However, this it is not the way the concept of force is used in Physics nowadays.



                  For instance, after Galilei, the uniform motion of a free body far from any other system is an process which does not require a force to happen. At variance, it is the fingerprint of the absence of a net force, according to the Newton's definition of force.



                  The case of the canister is similar. It is the "closed" configuration which implies the presence of a force to constrain the gas molecules to remain inside. When you remove the constrain (open the canister) motion of molecules continues without the confining force. The result is their diffusion in the whole available volume just because that is the most probable macroscopic configuration.






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  From your question, it seems that you call force whatever may be considered as a cause of something happening. However, this it is not the way the concept of force is used in Physics nowadays.



                  For instance, after Galilei, the uniform motion of a free body far from any other system is an process which does not require a force to happen. At variance, it is the fingerprint of the absence of a net force, according to the Newton's definition of force.



                  The case of the canister is similar. It is the "closed" configuration which implies the presence of a force to constrain the gas molecules to remain inside. When you remove the constrain (open the canister) motion of molecules continues without the confining force. The result is their diffusion in the whole available volume just because that is the most probable macroscopic configuration.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered 43 mins ago









                  GiorgioPGiorgioP

                  4,4391628




                  4,4391628






























                      draft saved

                      draft discarded




















































                      Thanks for contributing an answer to Physics Stack Exchange!


                      • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                      But avoid …



                      • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                      • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                      Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                      To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                      draft saved


                      draft discarded














                      StackExchange.ready(
                      function () {
                      StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fphysics.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f472159%2fwhat-force-causes-entropy-to-increase%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                      }
                      );

                      Post as a guest















                      Required, but never shown





















































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown

































                      Required, but never shown














                      Required, but never shown












                      Required, but never shown







                      Required, but never shown







                      -

                      Popular posts from this blog

                      Сан-Квентин

                      Image
                      Сан-Квентин Местоположение Сан-Квентин, Калифорния Координаты 37°56′13″ с. ш. 122°29′20″ з. д. H G Я O L Текущий статус Действует Режим безопасности минимальный и максимальный Количество мест 3 302 Открытие Июнь 1852 Находится в ведомстве California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation Начальник Mike Martel, начальник  Сан-Квентин на Викискладе Сан-Квентин (англ.  San Quentin ) — тюрьма, располагающаяся на 432 акрах (около 1,7 км²), на мысе Сан-Квентин, в округе Марин, штат Калифорния, США. Тюрьма штата Калифорния Сан-Квентин была открыта в июле 1852 года и является старейшей в штате. Она была построена заключёнными, которые проживали в течение строительства на тюремном судне Вабан. В Сан-Квентине отбывали наказание и мужчины, и женщины до 1934 года, когда построили женскую тюрьму в Техачапи и туда перевели всех заключённых женщин. В Сан-Квентине приводятся в исполнение смертные казни, для этого имеется газовая камера, но
                      Read more

                      Алькесар

                      Image
                      Муниципалитет Алькесар Alquézar Герб 42°10′16″ с. ш. 0°01′27″ в. д. H G Я O L Страна Испания   Испания Автономное сообщество Арагон Провинция Уэска Комарка Сомонтано-де-Барбастро Алькальд Хосе Марияно Альтемир Ласкорс (ИСРП) История и география Площадь 32,36 км² Высота НУМ 660 м Часовой пояс UTC+1, летом UTC+2 Население Население 313 человек ( 2010 ) Плотность 9,92 чел./км² Этнохороним alquezarano/-a Цифровые идентификаторы Телефонный код +34 974 Почтовые индексы 22112 Автомобильный код HU alquezar.org   (исп.) Показать/скрыть карты Алькесар Алькесар Алькесар  Аудио, фото и видео на Викискладе Алькесар (исп.  Alquézar ) — муниципалитет в Испании, входит в провинцию Уэска, в составе автономного сообщества Арагон. Муниципалитет находится в составе района (комарки) Сомонтано-де-Барбастро. Занимает площадь 32,36 км². Население — 321 челове
                      Read more

                      Josef Freinademetz

                      Image
                      San Ujöp (Giuseppe/Josef) Freinademetz Josef Freinademetz in abiti cinesi   Religioso e missionario   Nascita 15 aprile 1852 Morte 28 gennaio 1908 Venerato da Chiesa cattolica Beatificazione 1975 Canonizzazione 5 ottobre 2003 Ricorrenza 28 gennaio Manuale Ujöp Freinademetz noto anche come Giuseppe o Josef Freinademetz (Oies, 15 aprile 1852 – Taikia, 28 gennaio 1908) è stato un presbitero austriaco, membro della Società del Verbo Divino, fu missionario in Cina; è venerato come santo dalla Chiesa cattolica. .mw-parser-output .citazione-table{margin-bottom:.5em;font-size:95%}.mw-parser-output .citazione-table td{padding:0 1.2em 0 2.4em}.mw-parser-output .citazione-lang{vertical-align:top}.mw-parser-output .citazione-lang td{width:50%}.mw-parser-output .citazione-lang td:first-child{padding:0 0 0 2.4em}.mw-parser-output .citazione-lang td:nth-child(2){padding:0 1.2em} «Io amo la Cina e i cinesi; voglio morire in mezzo a loro, e tra loro
                      Read more