Is ipsum/ipsa/ipse a third person pronoun, or can it serve other functions?












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This question was inspired by a comment to an answer on this question:



How would you say “same thing” in Latin?



In which an answerer translated "Utinam idem sentires ac ipsa/ipse sentio!" as "If only you felt the same as I (fem/masc) feel!"



Thanks in advance.






pronomina personal-pronouns







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    3















    This question was inspired by a comment to an answer on this question:



    How would you say “same thing” in Latin?



    In which an answerer translated "Utinam idem sentires ac ipsa/ipse sentio!" as "If only you felt the same as I (fem/masc) feel!"



    Thanks in advance.






    pronomina personal-pronouns







    share|improve this question









    New contributor




    Sola Gratia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
    Check out our Code of Conduct.























      3












      3








      3








      This question was inspired by a comment to an answer on this question:



      How would you say “same thing” in Latin?



      In which an answerer translated "Utinam idem sentires ac ipsa/ipse sentio!" as "If only you felt the same as I (fem/masc) feel!"



      Thanks in advance.






      pronomina personal-pronouns







      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Sola Gratia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.












      This question was inspired by a comment to an answer on this question:



      How would you say “same thing” in Latin?



      In which an answerer translated "Utinam idem sentires ac ipsa/ipse sentio!" as "If only you felt the same as I (fem/masc) feel!"



      Thanks in advance.






      pronomina personal-pronouns




      pronomina personal-pronouns






      share|improve this question









      New contributor




      Sola Gratia is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
      Check out our Code of Conduct.











      share|improve this question









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      share|improve this question








      edited 7 hours ago









      Joonas Ilmavirta♦

      49.1k1271287




      49.1k1271287






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      asked 7 hours ago









      Sola GratiaSola Gratia

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          2 Answers
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          The pronoun ipse is not a third person pronoun.
          It can be used with the first or second person just as well.
          The closest English word I can think of is "-self" from which one can form "myself", "yourself", "himself", and others.
          (For clarity, I should add that ipse is not quite the same as "-self"; it is just the simplest one-word translation. Forms of se can also be translated as "-self", but in a very different way.)



          Reference to first or second (or third!) person can be left implicit.
          You can say ipse sentio ("I myself feel"), no need to say ego ipse sentio.



          It is possible to use it together with ego or tu as well, and that gives more emphasis.
          It also proves unambiguously that the pronoun can go together with first and second persons.
          For a couple of examples, you can check uses of ego ipse and tu ipse in Cicero.






          share|improve this answer





















          • 1





            That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")

            – Sola Gratia
            7 hours ago











          • @SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!

            – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
            7 hours ago






          • 1





            I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.

            – Sola Gratia
            7 hours ago



















          2














          As Joonas said, ipse is an intensifier, not a pronoun in and of itself.




          Caesar ipse hoc dixit.

          Caesar himself said this!




          The trick is, Latin leaves out pronouns all the time. So you'll sometimes see ipse standing on its own.




          Ipse hoc aedificavi.

          I built this myself!




          Here, the ending of the verb is what supplies the "I" and "my-" parts.



          Finally, a word of caution: ipse does not mean "-self" in the sense of "he's talking to himself". In English, the "intensive" pronoun and the "reflexive" pronoun look the same, but in Latin this isn't the case! So only use ipse when you're emphasizing something, not when you're saying that the subject and the object are the same.






          share|improve this answer
























          • I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!

            – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
            4 hours ago












          Your Answer








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          2 Answers
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          active

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          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

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          active

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          active

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          3














          The pronoun ipse is not a third person pronoun.
          It can be used with the first or second person just as well.
          The closest English word I can think of is "-self" from which one can form "myself", "yourself", "himself", and others.
          (For clarity, I should add that ipse is not quite the same as "-self"; it is just the simplest one-word translation. Forms of se can also be translated as "-self", but in a very different way.)



          Reference to first or second (or third!) person can be left implicit.
          You can say ipse sentio ("I myself feel"), no need to say ego ipse sentio.



          It is possible to use it together with ego or tu as well, and that gives more emphasis.
          It also proves unambiguously that the pronoun can go together with first and second persons.
          For a couple of examples, you can check uses of ego ipse and tu ipse in Cicero.






          share|improve this answer





















          • 1





            That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")

            – Sola Gratia
            7 hours ago











          • @SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!

            – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
            7 hours ago






          • 1





            I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.

            – Sola Gratia
            7 hours ago
















          3














          The pronoun ipse is not a third person pronoun.
          It can be used with the first or second person just as well.
          The closest English word I can think of is "-self" from which one can form "myself", "yourself", "himself", and others.
          (For clarity, I should add that ipse is not quite the same as "-self"; it is just the simplest one-word translation. Forms of se can also be translated as "-self", but in a very different way.)



          Reference to first or second (or third!) person can be left implicit.
          You can say ipse sentio ("I myself feel"), no need to say ego ipse sentio.



          It is possible to use it together with ego or tu as well, and that gives more emphasis.
          It also proves unambiguously that the pronoun can go together with first and second persons.
          For a couple of examples, you can check uses of ego ipse and tu ipse in Cicero.






          share|improve this answer





















          • 1





            That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")

            – Sola Gratia
            7 hours ago











          • @SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!

            – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
            7 hours ago






          • 1





            I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.

            – Sola Gratia
            7 hours ago














          3












          3








          3







          The pronoun ipse is not a third person pronoun.
          It can be used with the first or second person just as well.
          The closest English word I can think of is "-self" from which one can form "myself", "yourself", "himself", and others.
          (For clarity, I should add that ipse is not quite the same as "-self"; it is just the simplest one-word translation. Forms of se can also be translated as "-self", but in a very different way.)



          Reference to first or second (or third!) person can be left implicit.
          You can say ipse sentio ("I myself feel"), no need to say ego ipse sentio.



          It is possible to use it together with ego or tu as well, and that gives more emphasis.
          It also proves unambiguously that the pronoun can go together with first and second persons.
          For a couple of examples, you can check uses of ego ipse and tu ipse in Cicero.






          share|improve this answer















          The pronoun ipse is not a third person pronoun.
          It can be used with the first or second person just as well.
          The closest English word I can think of is "-self" from which one can form "myself", "yourself", "himself", and others.
          (For clarity, I should add that ipse is not quite the same as "-self"; it is just the simplest one-word translation. Forms of se can also be translated as "-self", but in a very different way.)



          Reference to first or second (or third!) person can be left implicit.
          You can say ipse sentio ("I myself feel"), no need to say ego ipse sentio.



          It is possible to use it together with ego or tu as well, and that gives more emphasis.
          It also proves unambiguously that the pronoun can go together with first and second persons.
          For a couple of examples, you can check uses of ego ipse and tu ipse in Cicero.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 4 hours ago

























          answered 7 hours ago









          Joonas Ilmavirta♦Joonas Ilmavirta

          49.1k1271287




          49.1k1271287








          • 1





            That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")

            – Sola Gratia
            7 hours ago











          • @SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!

            – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
            7 hours ago






          • 1





            I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.

            – Sola Gratia
            7 hours ago














          • 1





            That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")

            – Sola Gratia
            7 hours ago











          • @SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!

            – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
            7 hours ago






          • 1





            I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.

            – Sola Gratia
            7 hours ago








          1




          1





          That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")

          – Sola Gratia
          7 hours ago





          That has to be the fastest answer in history (literally within seconds haha). I will mark yours as the answer as soon as it'll allow me (which is apparently 10 minutes from now) (Also, did you mean to write "unambiguously?")

          – Sola Gratia
          7 hours ago













          @SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!

          – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
          7 hours ago





          @SolaGratia I did, but I was in a Latin mode and went with in- instead of un-. Good catch!

          – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
          7 hours ago




          1




          1





          I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.

          – Sola Gratia
          7 hours ago





          I suspected as much, haha. Thanks agian.

          – Sola Gratia
          7 hours ago











          2














          As Joonas said, ipse is an intensifier, not a pronoun in and of itself.




          Caesar ipse hoc dixit.

          Caesar himself said this!




          The trick is, Latin leaves out pronouns all the time. So you'll sometimes see ipse standing on its own.




          Ipse hoc aedificavi.

          I built this myself!




          Here, the ending of the verb is what supplies the "I" and "my-" parts.



          Finally, a word of caution: ipse does not mean "-self" in the sense of "he's talking to himself". In English, the "intensive" pronoun and the "reflexive" pronoun look the same, but in Latin this isn't the case! So only use ipse when you're emphasizing something, not when you're saying that the subject and the object are the same.






          share|improve this answer
























          • I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!

            – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
            4 hours ago
















          2














          As Joonas said, ipse is an intensifier, not a pronoun in and of itself.




          Caesar ipse hoc dixit.

          Caesar himself said this!




          The trick is, Latin leaves out pronouns all the time. So you'll sometimes see ipse standing on its own.




          Ipse hoc aedificavi.

          I built this myself!




          Here, the ending of the verb is what supplies the "I" and "my-" parts.



          Finally, a word of caution: ipse does not mean "-self" in the sense of "he's talking to himself". In English, the "intensive" pronoun and the "reflexive" pronoun look the same, but in Latin this isn't the case! So only use ipse when you're emphasizing something, not when you're saying that the subject and the object are the same.






          share|improve this answer
























          • I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!

            – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
            4 hours ago














          2












          2








          2







          As Joonas said, ipse is an intensifier, not a pronoun in and of itself.




          Caesar ipse hoc dixit.

          Caesar himself said this!




          The trick is, Latin leaves out pronouns all the time. So you'll sometimes see ipse standing on its own.




          Ipse hoc aedificavi.

          I built this myself!




          Here, the ending of the verb is what supplies the "I" and "my-" parts.



          Finally, a word of caution: ipse does not mean "-self" in the sense of "he's talking to himself". In English, the "intensive" pronoun and the "reflexive" pronoun look the same, but in Latin this isn't the case! So only use ipse when you're emphasizing something, not when you're saying that the subject and the object are the same.






          share|improve this answer













          As Joonas said, ipse is an intensifier, not a pronoun in and of itself.




          Caesar ipse hoc dixit.

          Caesar himself said this!




          The trick is, Latin leaves out pronouns all the time. So you'll sometimes see ipse standing on its own.




          Ipse hoc aedificavi.

          I built this myself!




          Here, the ending of the verb is what supplies the "I" and "my-" parts.



          Finally, a word of caution: ipse does not mean "-self" in the sense of "he's talking to himself". In English, the "intensive" pronoun and the "reflexive" pronoun look the same, but in Latin this isn't the case! So only use ipse when you're emphasizing something, not when you're saying that the subject and the object are the same.







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered 6 hours ago









          DraconisDraconis

          18.2k22475




          18.2k22475













          • I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!

            – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
            4 hours ago



















          • I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!

            – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
            4 hours ago

















          I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!

          – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
          4 hours ago





          I would actually say that ipse is a pronoun, but not a personal pronoun. But I guess that depends on what one means by a pronoun in a first place, and that's tangential to the question at hand. Anyway, a +1 for a good explanation!

          – Joonas Ilmavirta♦
          4 hours ago










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