What can be done about a disruptive classmate?
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There is a classmate who repeatedly interrupts the flow of lectures in various ways. We assume he has learning difficulties of some kind due to how he acts and because he has an assistant with him in most lectures.
Generally, it will be things such as asking an excessive number of questions. Often, in the middle of going through something, he will interrupt and ask the lecturer to repeat something said or written half a page ago–or will interrupt to try and jump in with the answer to the problem we are working through as a class. Or a question on a semi-unrelated topic, or on a different method of solving the problem will be asked.
The issue with these questions is they will be blurted out in the middle of an explanation, breaking the flow, and are extremely common, taking valuable time away from the lecture.
Additionally, he will often tell the lecturer to stop or go back a page so he can take a photo of the screen with his phone–and will often take up to 4 minutes before the lecture can go ahead.
Our lectures are recorded and posted on the student's area of the university website within a day, and previous years lectures are also available–with both the written and spoken information.
Overall, I would say these disruptions take up around 15 minutes of each 50 minute lecture.
It is probably useful to note here that I myself have learning difficulties–which means these are incredibly distracting and disruptive to me personally, more so than my classmates–although in conversations I have gathered that several others are also feeling this is impacting negatively on their education.
students interpersonal-issues disability
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There is a classmate who repeatedly interrupts the flow of lectures in various ways. We assume he has learning difficulties of some kind due to how he acts and because he has an assistant with him in most lectures.
Generally, it will be things such as asking an excessive number of questions. Often, in the middle of going through something, he will interrupt and ask the lecturer to repeat something said or written half a page ago–or will interrupt to try and jump in with the answer to the problem we are working through as a class. Or a question on a semi-unrelated topic, or on a different method of solving the problem will be asked.
The issue with these questions is they will be blurted out in the middle of an explanation, breaking the flow, and are extremely common, taking valuable time away from the lecture.
Additionally, he will often tell the lecturer to stop or go back a page so he can take a photo of the screen with his phone–and will often take up to 4 minutes before the lecture can go ahead.
Our lectures are recorded and posted on the student's area of the university website within a day, and previous years lectures are also available–with both the written and spoken information.
Overall, I would say these disruptions take up around 15 minutes of each 50 minute lecture.
It is probably useful to note here that I myself have learning difficulties–which means these are incredibly distracting and disruptive to me personally, more so than my classmates–although in conversations I have gathered that several others are also feeling this is impacting negatively on their education.
students interpersonal-issues disability
New contributor
4
The constraints of having learning difficulties are nowadays often handled by specialised units in the university. In case of - as in yours - contradictory requirements, you probably should discuss this with them first, and then, with their advice, with your lecturer (or even better, if they could give guidelines to the lecturer how to handle such obviously conflicting needs). Have you talked to them?
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
I have spoken to other staff members briefly- but not my lecturer. I will do that next, thank you!
– Emma
yesterday
Might this student also have learning difficulties to which this was the agreed upon response?
– Benjamin
19 hours ago
As a specific comment, I would insist in the future by a policy in the course syllabus that cell phones are not to be used during lecture. I would ask the student who is doing so in private to no longer do so. Simply state to him/her that this action is disruptive to the class and it is not an approach that is permitted carte blanch by anyone, even someone with a disability waiver.
– Jeffrey J Weimer
17 hours ago
1
I would be interested in answers to this question when learning disabilities aren't a factor. I've had very capable classmates in graduate courses act as though they're being lectured 1-1 and interrupt the professor with questions at a very dense rate, or try to go off on tangents related to their own research.
– Alex Reinking
11 hours ago
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up vote
39
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up vote
39
down vote
favorite
There is a classmate who repeatedly interrupts the flow of lectures in various ways. We assume he has learning difficulties of some kind due to how he acts and because he has an assistant with him in most lectures.
Generally, it will be things such as asking an excessive number of questions. Often, in the middle of going through something, he will interrupt and ask the lecturer to repeat something said or written half a page ago–or will interrupt to try and jump in with the answer to the problem we are working through as a class. Or a question on a semi-unrelated topic, or on a different method of solving the problem will be asked.
The issue with these questions is they will be blurted out in the middle of an explanation, breaking the flow, and are extremely common, taking valuable time away from the lecture.
Additionally, he will often tell the lecturer to stop or go back a page so he can take a photo of the screen with his phone–and will often take up to 4 minutes before the lecture can go ahead.
Our lectures are recorded and posted on the student's area of the university website within a day, and previous years lectures are also available–with both the written and spoken information.
Overall, I would say these disruptions take up around 15 minutes of each 50 minute lecture.
It is probably useful to note here that I myself have learning difficulties–which means these are incredibly distracting and disruptive to me personally, more so than my classmates–although in conversations I have gathered that several others are also feeling this is impacting negatively on their education.
students interpersonal-issues disability
New contributor
There is a classmate who repeatedly interrupts the flow of lectures in various ways. We assume he has learning difficulties of some kind due to how he acts and because he has an assistant with him in most lectures.
Generally, it will be things such as asking an excessive number of questions. Often, in the middle of going through something, he will interrupt and ask the lecturer to repeat something said or written half a page ago–or will interrupt to try and jump in with the answer to the problem we are working through as a class. Or a question on a semi-unrelated topic, or on a different method of solving the problem will be asked.
The issue with these questions is they will be blurted out in the middle of an explanation, breaking the flow, and are extremely common, taking valuable time away from the lecture.
Additionally, he will often tell the lecturer to stop or go back a page so he can take a photo of the screen with his phone–and will often take up to 4 minutes before the lecture can go ahead.
Our lectures are recorded and posted on the student's area of the university website within a day, and previous years lectures are also available–with both the written and spoken information.
Overall, I would say these disruptions take up around 15 minutes of each 50 minute lecture.
It is probably useful to note here that I myself have learning difficulties–which means these are incredibly distracting and disruptive to me personally, more so than my classmates–although in conversations I have gathered that several others are also feeling this is impacting negatively on their education.
students interpersonal-issues disability
students interpersonal-issues disability
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edited 19 hours ago
Mari-Lou A
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asked yesterday
Emma
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4
The constraints of having learning difficulties are nowadays often handled by specialised units in the university. In case of - as in yours - contradictory requirements, you probably should discuss this with them first, and then, with their advice, with your lecturer (or even better, if they could give guidelines to the lecturer how to handle such obviously conflicting needs). Have you talked to them?
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
I have spoken to other staff members briefly- but not my lecturer. I will do that next, thank you!
– Emma
yesterday
Might this student also have learning difficulties to which this was the agreed upon response?
– Benjamin
19 hours ago
As a specific comment, I would insist in the future by a policy in the course syllabus that cell phones are not to be used during lecture. I would ask the student who is doing so in private to no longer do so. Simply state to him/her that this action is disruptive to the class and it is not an approach that is permitted carte blanch by anyone, even someone with a disability waiver.
– Jeffrey J Weimer
17 hours ago
1
I would be interested in answers to this question when learning disabilities aren't a factor. I've had very capable classmates in graduate courses act as though they're being lectured 1-1 and interrupt the professor with questions at a very dense rate, or try to go off on tangents related to their own research.
– Alex Reinking
11 hours ago
add a comment |
4
The constraints of having learning difficulties are nowadays often handled by specialised units in the university. In case of - as in yours - contradictory requirements, you probably should discuss this with them first, and then, with their advice, with your lecturer (or even better, if they could give guidelines to the lecturer how to handle such obviously conflicting needs). Have you talked to them?
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
I have spoken to other staff members briefly- but not my lecturer. I will do that next, thank you!
– Emma
yesterday
Might this student also have learning difficulties to which this was the agreed upon response?
– Benjamin
19 hours ago
As a specific comment, I would insist in the future by a policy in the course syllabus that cell phones are not to be used during lecture. I would ask the student who is doing so in private to no longer do so. Simply state to him/her that this action is disruptive to the class and it is not an approach that is permitted carte blanch by anyone, even someone with a disability waiver.
– Jeffrey J Weimer
17 hours ago
1
I would be interested in answers to this question when learning disabilities aren't a factor. I've had very capable classmates in graduate courses act as though they're being lectured 1-1 and interrupt the professor with questions at a very dense rate, or try to go off on tangents related to their own research.
– Alex Reinking
11 hours ago
4
4
The constraints of having learning difficulties are nowadays often handled by specialised units in the university. In case of - as in yours - contradictory requirements, you probably should discuss this with them first, and then, with their advice, with your lecturer (or even better, if they could give guidelines to the lecturer how to handle such obviously conflicting needs). Have you talked to them?
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
The constraints of having learning difficulties are nowadays often handled by specialised units in the university. In case of - as in yours - contradictory requirements, you probably should discuss this with them first, and then, with their advice, with your lecturer (or even better, if they could give guidelines to the lecturer how to handle such obviously conflicting needs). Have you talked to them?
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
I have spoken to other staff members briefly- but not my lecturer. I will do that next, thank you!
– Emma
yesterday
I have spoken to other staff members briefly- but not my lecturer. I will do that next, thank you!
– Emma
yesterday
Might this student also have learning difficulties to which this was the agreed upon response?
– Benjamin
19 hours ago
Might this student also have learning difficulties to which this was the agreed upon response?
– Benjamin
19 hours ago
As a specific comment, I would insist in the future by a policy in the course syllabus that cell phones are not to be used during lecture. I would ask the student who is doing so in private to no longer do so. Simply state to him/her that this action is disruptive to the class and it is not an approach that is permitted carte blanch by anyone, even someone with a disability waiver.
– Jeffrey J Weimer
17 hours ago
As a specific comment, I would insist in the future by a policy in the course syllabus that cell phones are not to be used during lecture. I would ask the student who is doing so in private to no longer do so. Simply state to him/her that this action is disruptive to the class and it is not an approach that is permitted carte blanch by anyone, even someone with a disability waiver.
– Jeffrey J Weimer
17 hours ago
1
1
I would be interested in answers to this question when learning disabilities aren't a factor. I've had very capable classmates in graduate courses act as though they're being lectured 1-1 and interrupt the professor with questions at a very dense rate, or try to go off on tangents related to their own research.
– Alex Reinking
11 hours ago
I would be interested in answers to this question when learning disabilities aren't a factor. I've had very capable classmates in graduate courses act as though they're being lectured 1-1 and interrupt the professor with questions at a very dense rate, or try to go off on tangents related to their own research.
– Alex Reinking
11 hours ago
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4 Answers
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up vote
73
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You would handle this the same way you would handle anything in class that impacts your ability to learn. You contact the instructor, and suggest that there is something disruptive going on.
18
+1, yes. This isn't something a student can handle directly. Work through the professor or a dedicated office.
– Buffy
yesterday
+1 as this is a good solution regardless of disability status. I have personally experienced such disruptions far more frequently from able students.
– Alex Reinking
11 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
51
down vote
I've unfortunately been on the other end of this as a lecturer in a very similar situation. In that case, I had a perception that it might be creating problems for the other students, but couldn't really do much about it since no students actively said it was an issue. If they had, I could have likely then sat down with the disabilities service coordinators and hashed something out. A few students finally did come forward at the end of the semester but by then there was only a short amount of time left in the semester so there wasn't enough time to deal with it. In that context, you should talk to both the instructor and the service coordinator (or equivalent) especially since you have needs yourself. And make sure to do it sooner rather than later.
9
Just out of curiosity, is there a reason you couldn't pre-emptively talk with disability services before students came forth and commented about it?
– user76284
yesterday
18
@user76284 , There are a lot of concerns about instructors discriminating against students with disabilities or interfering with their accommodations (and some of those concerns are definitely valid), so going to talk to them without some sort of evidence that students actually had an issue would likely not have gone over well. This was partially a judgment call based on the school and the fact that I didn't have much job security at the position in question. At a previous positions, I had interacted a lot with the disabilities office people, and would have had less qualms bringing it up.
– JoshuaZ
yesterday
1
I don't know your exact situation but there is no way I would allow one student to derail approximately 30% of the lecture for any reason. That clearly impacts every other student.
– Kimball
yesterday
4
@Kimball My situation wasn't as extreme as that in the OP.
– JoshuaZ
yesterday
1
@Kimball Until a student comes forward, it's difficult to quantify the level of perceived disruption.
– Strawberry
19 hours ago
|
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up vote
3
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We have a saying here: Don't throw out the baby with the bath water. I don't want to minimize the problem here and do accept that the student is, perhaps unknowingly, going beyond acceptable bounds, but students in general, who ask a lot of questions can be an asset to a course.
I was one of those students, in fact, but didn't just blurt out questions or behave in a disruptive manner. But I did have my hand up quite a lot of the time. When I was a kid, my mother though I was a pain in the butt because I asked so many questions: Why ... Why ...
But when I was a graduate student, my fellow students thought I was a lot smarter than I really am because I asked so many questions in graduate level math classes (Measure Theory, Topology, ...). In fact, those other students were often too reticent to actually ask the questions that they, like myself, needed answering. I found later, when teaching, that very few students are willing to interrupt you when you make a mistake, or ask a question when you have made an unwarranted assumption. The students that are willing can actually be an asset, provided that the flow isn't unnecessarily interrupted - unlike the description given by the OP.
But occasionally the flow needs to be interrupted because the instructor has taken a wrong turn or made an invalid leap - or just one that the students don't have the level of knowledge to follow.
The required balance here is normally manageable if class sizes are reasonable. But when they reach a hundred it is pretty disruptive to ask questions or do much of anything at the moment. Hopefully in those cases students can learn to record and save their questions and issues for a smaller "recitation" section. I strongly disfavor such large classes because in these sorts of situations it is all too possible for a student with a serious question to not have it answered at all. Maybe worse is when that individual student gets and answer and other students don't, when all needed the extra information. That can be managed, I've found, but it takes attention to process to assure that bringing everyone up to speed actually happens.
10
I don't understand what you're trying to address here. That OP should move to a smaller class? Apparently this is a situation that more than OP finds annoying so it doesn't seem to fit with your experience about someone helping other students by asking, either.
– pipe
yesterday
1
@pipe, no, I'm only warning against "solutions" that forbid all interruptions. As I said a couple of places, the situation described is abnormal, but not all solutions are appropriate. Read it for what it is, not for a specific solution to the question asked.
– Buffy
yesterday
8
This is more of a personal opinion on a tangetial subject, rather than an answer to OP's question. OP did not hint that the distruptive person asks questions that others might have as well. It seems that he mostly asks things that others are not interested (anymore).
– problemofficer
yesterday
14
@Buffy Who suggested any kind of "'solution' that forbids all interruptions"? That seems like a straw man, to me.
– David Richerby
yesterday
1
I feel that this answer is useful as an anecdote and adds an extra aspect; students who are unafraid to participate verbally should not be discouraged but it offers no practical solution to the OP's problem.
– Mari-Lou A
20 hours ago
|
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3
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As a classmate and a student I would strongly suggest you try connect and talk to your colleague. I am often amazed by the amount of issues people have which were completely left untreated with the directly concerned person. How would you feel if all of a sudden you are getting called out by some high authority because of something you did over and over again, but never though to be a problem? It may sound harsh at first, but people with a minimal level of maturity know that is better to respond well to a peer criticism than to an authority's warning.
That being said, such conversation should be conducted with care, patience and an open mind. You may find out he has reasons to behave as he does, and you may choose yourself to tolerate it. Truth be told, you'll likely just conclude that you fulfilled my "professional courtesy" recommendation.
Then you should talk to some authority, in a regular school this could be the Principal or vice-Principal, your university could have some teaching supervisor. Ideally this should be some one with authority over the teachers and with some responsibility level over the quality of the course you are taking.
I'll suggest you rehearse that conversation in front of a mirror. It will help scrapping argument parts which would sound like whining, and also avoids sounding emotional during the explanation. You should make it clear that some measures have already been taken, that the problems are recurring, and even if up to some point his situation may be understandable, it is poor practice to allow one student's behavior to severely penalize other students quality of learning. Be open-minded again, since in this case the authority may have better information on why the student behaves as described, and may not be ethically allowed to share it with you. You do not need the authority to commit to solve the issue, you need to make sure that a person with the proper tools to address the issue has knowledge of it. Try as well to give hint and suggestions on how this person could look into the issue and observe it first-hand.
That being said, and depending on the tools available, actions might only be taken by the authority if the complaint comes from some independent source. So try to influence other people into complaining to said authority as well. The point is, if any kind of measure that may be understood as a punishment would need to be taken, no authority figure should do it over a single person's word alone. You would be lucky enough if this authority conducted any investigation to sanity-check your complaint, hence why I suggested giving hint on how to do so.
Then wait, and try to be satisfied with any sign of improvement, these things may improve gradually rather than abruptly.
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4 Answers
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
73
down vote
You would handle this the same way you would handle anything in class that impacts your ability to learn. You contact the instructor, and suggest that there is something disruptive going on.
18
+1, yes. This isn't something a student can handle directly. Work through the professor or a dedicated office.
– Buffy
yesterday
+1 as this is a good solution regardless of disability status. I have personally experienced such disruptions far more frequently from able students.
– Alex Reinking
11 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
73
down vote
You would handle this the same way you would handle anything in class that impacts your ability to learn. You contact the instructor, and suggest that there is something disruptive going on.
18
+1, yes. This isn't something a student can handle directly. Work through the professor or a dedicated office.
– Buffy
yesterday
+1 as this is a good solution regardless of disability status. I have personally experienced such disruptions far more frequently from able students.
– Alex Reinking
11 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
73
down vote
up vote
73
down vote
You would handle this the same way you would handle anything in class that impacts your ability to learn. You contact the instructor, and suggest that there is something disruptive going on.
You would handle this the same way you would handle anything in class that impacts your ability to learn. You contact the instructor, and suggest that there is something disruptive going on.
answered yesterday
Scott Seidman
14.1k23269
14.1k23269
18
+1, yes. This isn't something a student can handle directly. Work through the professor or a dedicated office.
– Buffy
yesterday
+1 as this is a good solution regardless of disability status. I have personally experienced such disruptions far more frequently from able students.
– Alex Reinking
11 hours ago
add a comment |
18
+1, yes. This isn't something a student can handle directly. Work through the professor or a dedicated office.
– Buffy
yesterday
+1 as this is a good solution regardless of disability status. I have personally experienced such disruptions far more frequently from able students.
– Alex Reinking
11 hours ago
18
18
+1, yes. This isn't something a student can handle directly. Work through the professor or a dedicated office.
– Buffy
yesterday
+1, yes. This isn't something a student can handle directly. Work through the professor or a dedicated office.
– Buffy
yesterday
+1 as this is a good solution regardless of disability status. I have personally experienced such disruptions far more frequently from able students.
– Alex Reinking
11 hours ago
+1 as this is a good solution regardless of disability status. I have personally experienced such disruptions far more frequently from able students.
– Alex Reinking
11 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
51
down vote
I've unfortunately been on the other end of this as a lecturer in a very similar situation. In that case, I had a perception that it might be creating problems for the other students, but couldn't really do much about it since no students actively said it was an issue. If they had, I could have likely then sat down with the disabilities service coordinators and hashed something out. A few students finally did come forward at the end of the semester but by then there was only a short amount of time left in the semester so there wasn't enough time to deal with it. In that context, you should talk to both the instructor and the service coordinator (or equivalent) especially since you have needs yourself. And make sure to do it sooner rather than later.
9
Just out of curiosity, is there a reason you couldn't pre-emptively talk with disability services before students came forth and commented about it?
– user76284
yesterday
18
@user76284 , There are a lot of concerns about instructors discriminating against students with disabilities or interfering with their accommodations (and some of those concerns are definitely valid), so going to talk to them without some sort of evidence that students actually had an issue would likely not have gone over well. This was partially a judgment call based on the school and the fact that I didn't have much job security at the position in question. At a previous positions, I had interacted a lot with the disabilities office people, and would have had less qualms bringing it up.
– JoshuaZ
yesterday
1
I don't know your exact situation but there is no way I would allow one student to derail approximately 30% of the lecture for any reason. That clearly impacts every other student.
– Kimball
yesterday
4
@Kimball My situation wasn't as extreme as that in the OP.
– JoshuaZ
yesterday
1
@Kimball Until a student comes forward, it's difficult to quantify the level of perceived disruption.
– Strawberry
19 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
up vote
51
down vote
I've unfortunately been on the other end of this as a lecturer in a very similar situation. In that case, I had a perception that it might be creating problems for the other students, but couldn't really do much about it since no students actively said it was an issue. If they had, I could have likely then sat down with the disabilities service coordinators and hashed something out. A few students finally did come forward at the end of the semester but by then there was only a short amount of time left in the semester so there wasn't enough time to deal with it. In that context, you should talk to both the instructor and the service coordinator (or equivalent) especially since you have needs yourself. And make sure to do it sooner rather than later.
9
Just out of curiosity, is there a reason you couldn't pre-emptively talk with disability services before students came forth and commented about it?
– user76284
yesterday
18
@user76284 , There are a lot of concerns about instructors discriminating against students with disabilities or interfering with their accommodations (and some of those concerns are definitely valid), so going to talk to them without some sort of evidence that students actually had an issue would likely not have gone over well. This was partially a judgment call based on the school and the fact that I didn't have much job security at the position in question. At a previous positions, I had interacted a lot with the disabilities office people, and would have had less qualms bringing it up.
– JoshuaZ
yesterday
1
I don't know your exact situation but there is no way I would allow one student to derail approximately 30% of the lecture for any reason. That clearly impacts every other student.
– Kimball
yesterday
4
@Kimball My situation wasn't as extreme as that in the OP.
– JoshuaZ
yesterday
1
@Kimball Until a student comes forward, it's difficult to quantify the level of perceived disruption.
– Strawberry
19 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
up vote
51
down vote
up vote
51
down vote
I've unfortunately been on the other end of this as a lecturer in a very similar situation. In that case, I had a perception that it might be creating problems for the other students, but couldn't really do much about it since no students actively said it was an issue. If they had, I could have likely then sat down with the disabilities service coordinators and hashed something out. A few students finally did come forward at the end of the semester but by then there was only a short amount of time left in the semester so there wasn't enough time to deal with it. In that context, you should talk to both the instructor and the service coordinator (or equivalent) especially since you have needs yourself. And make sure to do it sooner rather than later.
I've unfortunately been on the other end of this as a lecturer in a very similar situation. In that case, I had a perception that it might be creating problems for the other students, but couldn't really do much about it since no students actively said it was an issue. If they had, I could have likely then sat down with the disabilities service coordinators and hashed something out. A few students finally did come forward at the end of the semester but by then there was only a short amount of time left in the semester so there wasn't enough time to deal with it. In that context, you should talk to both the instructor and the service coordinator (or equivalent) especially since you have needs yourself. And make sure to do it sooner rather than later.
answered yesterday
JoshuaZ
1,200310
1,200310
9
Just out of curiosity, is there a reason you couldn't pre-emptively talk with disability services before students came forth and commented about it?
– user76284
yesterday
18
@user76284 , There are a lot of concerns about instructors discriminating against students with disabilities or interfering with their accommodations (and some of those concerns are definitely valid), so going to talk to them without some sort of evidence that students actually had an issue would likely not have gone over well. This was partially a judgment call based on the school and the fact that I didn't have much job security at the position in question. At a previous positions, I had interacted a lot with the disabilities office people, and would have had less qualms bringing it up.
– JoshuaZ
yesterday
1
I don't know your exact situation but there is no way I would allow one student to derail approximately 30% of the lecture for any reason. That clearly impacts every other student.
– Kimball
yesterday
4
@Kimball My situation wasn't as extreme as that in the OP.
– JoshuaZ
yesterday
1
@Kimball Until a student comes forward, it's difficult to quantify the level of perceived disruption.
– Strawberry
19 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
9
Just out of curiosity, is there a reason you couldn't pre-emptively talk with disability services before students came forth and commented about it?
– user76284
yesterday
18
@user76284 , There are a lot of concerns about instructors discriminating against students with disabilities or interfering with their accommodations (and some of those concerns are definitely valid), so going to talk to them without some sort of evidence that students actually had an issue would likely not have gone over well. This was partially a judgment call based on the school and the fact that I didn't have much job security at the position in question. At a previous positions, I had interacted a lot with the disabilities office people, and would have had less qualms bringing it up.
– JoshuaZ
yesterday
1
I don't know your exact situation but there is no way I would allow one student to derail approximately 30% of the lecture for any reason. That clearly impacts every other student.
– Kimball
yesterday
4
@Kimball My situation wasn't as extreme as that in the OP.
– JoshuaZ
yesterday
1
@Kimball Until a student comes forward, it's difficult to quantify the level of perceived disruption.
– Strawberry
19 hours ago
9
9
Just out of curiosity, is there a reason you couldn't pre-emptively talk with disability services before students came forth and commented about it?
– user76284
yesterday
Just out of curiosity, is there a reason you couldn't pre-emptively talk with disability services before students came forth and commented about it?
– user76284
yesterday
18
18
@user76284 , There are a lot of concerns about instructors discriminating against students with disabilities or interfering with their accommodations (and some of those concerns are definitely valid), so going to talk to them without some sort of evidence that students actually had an issue would likely not have gone over well. This was partially a judgment call based on the school and the fact that I didn't have much job security at the position in question. At a previous positions, I had interacted a lot with the disabilities office people, and would have had less qualms bringing it up.
– JoshuaZ
yesterday
@user76284 , There are a lot of concerns about instructors discriminating against students with disabilities or interfering with their accommodations (and some of those concerns are definitely valid), so going to talk to them without some sort of evidence that students actually had an issue would likely not have gone over well. This was partially a judgment call based on the school and the fact that I didn't have much job security at the position in question. At a previous positions, I had interacted a lot with the disabilities office people, and would have had less qualms bringing it up.
– JoshuaZ
yesterday
1
1
I don't know your exact situation but there is no way I would allow one student to derail approximately 30% of the lecture for any reason. That clearly impacts every other student.
– Kimball
yesterday
I don't know your exact situation but there is no way I would allow one student to derail approximately 30% of the lecture for any reason. That clearly impacts every other student.
– Kimball
yesterday
4
4
@Kimball My situation wasn't as extreme as that in the OP.
– JoshuaZ
yesterday
@Kimball My situation wasn't as extreme as that in the OP.
– JoshuaZ
yesterday
1
1
@Kimball Until a student comes forward, it's difficult to quantify the level of perceived disruption.
– Strawberry
19 hours ago
@Kimball Until a student comes forward, it's difficult to quantify the level of perceived disruption.
– Strawberry
19 hours ago
|
show 7 more comments
up vote
3
down vote
We have a saying here: Don't throw out the baby with the bath water. I don't want to minimize the problem here and do accept that the student is, perhaps unknowingly, going beyond acceptable bounds, but students in general, who ask a lot of questions can be an asset to a course.
I was one of those students, in fact, but didn't just blurt out questions or behave in a disruptive manner. But I did have my hand up quite a lot of the time. When I was a kid, my mother though I was a pain in the butt because I asked so many questions: Why ... Why ...
But when I was a graduate student, my fellow students thought I was a lot smarter than I really am because I asked so many questions in graduate level math classes (Measure Theory, Topology, ...). In fact, those other students were often too reticent to actually ask the questions that they, like myself, needed answering. I found later, when teaching, that very few students are willing to interrupt you when you make a mistake, or ask a question when you have made an unwarranted assumption. The students that are willing can actually be an asset, provided that the flow isn't unnecessarily interrupted - unlike the description given by the OP.
But occasionally the flow needs to be interrupted because the instructor has taken a wrong turn or made an invalid leap - or just one that the students don't have the level of knowledge to follow.
The required balance here is normally manageable if class sizes are reasonable. But when they reach a hundred it is pretty disruptive to ask questions or do much of anything at the moment. Hopefully in those cases students can learn to record and save their questions and issues for a smaller "recitation" section. I strongly disfavor such large classes because in these sorts of situations it is all too possible for a student with a serious question to not have it answered at all. Maybe worse is when that individual student gets and answer and other students don't, when all needed the extra information. That can be managed, I've found, but it takes attention to process to assure that bringing everyone up to speed actually happens.
10
I don't understand what you're trying to address here. That OP should move to a smaller class? Apparently this is a situation that more than OP finds annoying so it doesn't seem to fit with your experience about someone helping other students by asking, either.
– pipe
yesterday
1
@pipe, no, I'm only warning against "solutions" that forbid all interruptions. As I said a couple of places, the situation described is abnormal, but not all solutions are appropriate. Read it for what it is, not for a specific solution to the question asked.
– Buffy
yesterday
8
This is more of a personal opinion on a tangetial subject, rather than an answer to OP's question. OP did not hint that the distruptive person asks questions that others might have as well. It seems that he mostly asks things that others are not interested (anymore).
– problemofficer
yesterday
14
@Buffy Who suggested any kind of "'solution' that forbids all interruptions"? That seems like a straw man, to me.
– David Richerby
yesterday
1
I feel that this answer is useful as an anecdote and adds an extra aspect; students who are unafraid to participate verbally should not be discouraged but it offers no practical solution to the OP's problem.
– Mari-Lou A
20 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
3
down vote
We have a saying here: Don't throw out the baby with the bath water. I don't want to minimize the problem here and do accept that the student is, perhaps unknowingly, going beyond acceptable bounds, but students in general, who ask a lot of questions can be an asset to a course.
I was one of those students, in fact, but didn't just blurt out questions or behave in a disruptive manner. But I did have my hand up quite a lot of the time. When I was a kid, my mother though I was a pain in the butt because I asked so many questions: Why ... Why ...
But when I was a graduate student, my fellow students thought I was a lot smarter than I really am because I asked so many questions in graduate level math classes (Measure Theory, Topology, ...). In fact, those other students were often too reticent to actually ask the questions that they, like myself, needed answering. I found later, when teaching, that very few students are willing to interrupt you when you make a mistake, or ask a question when you have made an unwarranted assumption. The students that are willing can actually be an asset, provided that the flow isn't unnecessarily interrupted - unlike the description given by the OP.
But occasionally the flow needs to be interrupted because the instructor has taken a wrong turn or made an invalid leap - or just one that the students don't have the level of knowledge to follow.
The required balance here is normally manageable if class sizes are reasonable. But when they reach a hundred it is pretty disruptive to ask questions or do much of anything at the moment. Hopefully in those cases students can learn to record and save their questions and issues for a smaller "recitation" section. I strongly disfavor such large classes because in these sorts of situations it is all too possible for a student with a serious question to not have it answered at all. Maybe worse is when that individual student gets and answer and other students don't, when all needed the extra information. That can be managed, I've found, but it takes attention to process to assure that bringing everyone up to speed actually happens.
10
I don't understand what you're trying to address here. That OP should move to a smaller class? Apparently this is a situation that more than OP finds annoying so it doesn't seem to fit with your experience about someone helping other students by asking, either.
– pipe
yesterday
1
@pipe, no, I'm only warning against "solutions" that forbid all interruptions. As I said a couple of places, the situation described is abnormal, but not all solutions are appropriate. Read it for what it is, not for a specific solution to the question asked.
– Buffy
yesterday
8
This is more of a personal opinion on a tangetial subject, rather than an answer to OP's question. OP did not hint that the distruptive person asks questions that others might have as well. It seems that he mostly asks things that others are not interested (anymore).
– problemofficer
yesterday
14
@Buffy Who suggested any kind of "'solution' that forbids all interruptions"? That seems like a straw man, to me.
– David Richerby
yesterday
1
I feel that this answer is useful as an anecdote and adds an extra aspect; students who are unafraid to participate verbally should not be discouraged but it offers no practical solution to the OP's problem.
– Mari-Lou A
20 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
We have a saying here: Don't throw out the baby with the bath water. I don't want to minimize the problem here and do accept that the student is, perhaps unknowingly, going beyond acceptable bounds, but students in general, who ask a lot of questions can be an asset to a course.
I was one of those students, in fact, but didn't just blurt out questions or behave in a disruptive manner. But I did have my hand up quite a lot of the time. When I was a kid, my mother though I was a pain in the butt because I asked so many questions: Why ... Why ...
But when I was a graduate student, my fellow students thought I was a lot smarter than I really am because I asked so many questions in graduate level math classes (Measure Theory, Topology, ...). In fact, those other students were often too reticent to actually ask the questions that they, like myself, needed answering. I found later, when teaching, that very few students are willing to interrupt you when you make a mistake, or ask a question when you have made an unwarranted assumption. The students that are willing can actually be an asset, provided that the flow isn't unnecessarily interrupted - unlike the description given by the OP.
But occasionally the flow needs to be interrupted because the instructor has taken a wrong turn or made an invalid leap - or just one that the students don't have the level of knowledge to follow.
The required balance here is normally manageable if class sizes are reasonable. But when they reach a hundred it is pretty disruptive to ask questions or do much of anything at the moment. Hopefully in those cases students can learn to record and save their questions and issues for a smaller "recitation" section. I strongly disfavor such large classes because in these sorts of situations it is all too possible for a student with a serious question to not have it answered at all. Maybe worse is when that individual student gets and answer and other students don't, when all needed the extra information. That can be managed, I've found, but it takes attention to process to assure that bringing everyone up to speed actually happens.
We have a saying here: Don't throw out the baby with the bath water. I don't want to minimize the problem here and do accept that the student is, perhaps unknowingly, going beyond acceptable bounds, but students in general, who ask a lot of questions can be an asset to a course.
I was one of those students, in fact, but didn't just blurt out questions or behave in a disruptive manner. But I did have my hand up quite a lot of the time. When I was a kid, my mother though I was a pain in the butt because I asked so many questions: Why ... Why ...
But when I was a graduate student, my fellow students thought I was a lot smarter than I really am because I asked so many questions in graduate level math classes (Measure Theory, Topology, ...). In fact, those other students were often too reticent to actually ask the questions that they, like myself, needed answering. I found later, when teaching, that very few students are willing to interrupt you when you make a mistake, or ask a question when you have made an unwarranted assumption. The students that are willing can actually be an asset, provided that the flow isn't unnecessarily interrupted - unlike the description given by the OP.
But occasionally the flow needs to be interrupted because the instructor has taken a wrong turn or made an invalid leap - or just one that the students don't have the level of knowledge to follow.
The required balance here is normally manageable if class sizes are reasonable. But when they reach a hundred it is pretty disruptive to ask questions or do much of anything at the moment. Hopefully in those cases students can learn to record and save their questions and issues for a smaller "recitation" section. I strongly disfavor such large classes because in these sorts of situations it is all too possible for a student with a serious question to not have it answered at all. Maybe worse is when that individual student gets and answer and other students don't, when all needed the extra information. That can be managed, I've found, but it takes attention to process to assure that bringing everyone up to speed actually happens.
answered yesterday
Buffy
28.4k688152
28.4k688152
10
I don't understand what you're trying to address here. That OP should move to a smaller class? Apparently this is a situation that more than OP finds annoying so it doesn't seem to fit with your experience about someone helping other students by asking, either.
– pipe
yesterday
1
@pipe, no, I'm only warning against "solutions" that forbid all interruptions. As I said a couple of places, the situation described is abnormal, but not all solutions are appropriate. Read it for what it is, not for a specific solution to the question asked.
– Buffy
yesterday
8
This is more of a personal opinion on a tangetial subject, rather than an answer to OP's question. OP did not hint that the distruptive person asks questions that others might have as well. It seems that he mostly asks things that others are not interested (anymore).
– problemofficer
yesterday
14
@Buffy Who suggested any kind of "'solution' that forbids all interruptions"? That seems like a straw man, to me.
– David Richerby
yesterday
1
I feel that this answer is useful as an anecdote and adds an extra aspect; students who are unafraid to participate verbally should not be discouraged but it offers no practical solution to the OP's problem.
– Mari-Lou A
20 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
10
I don't understand what you're trying to address here. That OP should move to a smaller class? Apparently this is a situation that more than OP finds annoying so it doesn't seem to fit with your experience about someone helping other students by asking, either.
– pipe
yesterday
1
@pipe, no, I'm only warning against "solutions" that forbid all interruptions. As I said a couple of places, the situation described is abnormal, but not all solutions are appropriate. Read it for what it is, not for a specific solution to the question asked.
– Buffy
yesterday
8
This is more of a personal opinion on a tangetial subject, rather than an answer to OP's question. OP did not hint that the distruptive person asks questions that others might have as well. It seems that he mostly asks things that others are not interested (anymore).
– problemofficer
yesterday
14
@Buffy Who suggested any kind of "'solution' that forbids all interruptions"? That seems like a straw man, to me.
– David Richerby
yesterday
1
I feel that this answer is useful as an anecdote and adds an extra aspect; students who are unafraid to participate verbally should not be discouraged but it offers no practical solution to the OP's problem.
– Mari-Lou A
20 hours ago
10
10
I don't understand what you're trying to address here. That OP should move to a smaller class? Apparently this is a situation that more than OP finds annoying so it doesn't seem to fit with your experience about someone helping other students by asking, either.
– pipe
yesterday
I don't understand what you're trying to address here. That OP should move to a smaller class? Apparently this is a situation that more than OP finds annoying so it doesn't seem to fit with your experience about someone helping other students by asking, either.
– pipe
yesterday
1
1
@pipe, no, I'm only warning against "solutions" that forbid all interruptions. As I said a couple of places, the situation described is abnormal, but not all solutions are appropriate. Read it for what it is, not for a specific solution to the question asked.
– Buffy
yesterday
@pipe, no, I'm only warning against "solutions" that forbid all interruptions. As I said a couple of places, the situation described is abnormal, but not all solutions are appropriate. Read it for what it is, not for a specific solution to the question asked.
– Buffy
yesterday
8
8
This is more of a personal opinion on a tangetial subject, rather than an answer to OP's question. OP did not hint that the distruptive person asks questions that others might have as well. It seems that he mostly asks things that others are not interested (anymore).
– problemofficer
yesterday
This is more of a personal opinion on a tangetial subject, rather than an answer to OP's question. OP did not hint that the distruptive person asks questions that others might have as well. It seems that he mostly asks things that others are not interested (anymore).
– problemofficer
yesterday
14
14
@Buffy Who suggested any kind of "'solution' that forbids all interruptions"? That seems like a straw man, to me.
– David Richerby
yesterday
@Buffy Who suggested any kind of "'solution' that forbids all interruptions"? That seems like a straw man, to me.
– David Richerby
yesterday
1
1
I feel that this answer is useful as an anecdote and adds an extra aspect; students who are unafraid to participate verbally should not be discouraged but it offers no practical solution to the OP's problem.
– Mari-Lou A
20 hours ago
I feel that this answer is useful as an anecdote and adds an extra aspect; students who are unafraid to participate verbally should not be discouraged but it offers no practical solution to the OP's problem.
– Mari-Lou A
20 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
3
down vote
As a classmate and a student I would strongly suggest you try connect and talk to your colleague. I am often amazed by the amount of issues people have which were completely left untreated with the directly concerned person. How would you feel if all of a sudden you are getting called out by some high authority because of something you did over and over again, but never though to be a problem? It may sound harsh at first, but people with a minimal level of maturity know that is better to respond well to a peer criticism than to an authority's warning.
That being said, such conversation should be conducted with care, patience and an open mind. You may find out he has reasons to behave as he does, and you may choose yourself to tolerate it. Truth be told, you'll likely just conclude that you fulfilled my "professional courtesy" recommendation.
Then you should talk to some authority, in a regular school this could be the Principal or vice-Principal, your university could have some teaching supervisor. Ideally this should be some one with authority over the teachers and with some responsibility level over the quality of the course you are taking.
I'll suggest you rehearse that conversation in front of a mirror. It will help scrapping argument parts which would sound like whining, and also avoids sounding emotional during the explanation. You should make it clear that some measures have already been taken, that the problems are recurring, and even if up to some point his situation may be understandable, it is poor practice to allow one student's behavior to severely penalize other students quality of learning. Be open-minded again, since in this case the authority may have better information on why the student behaves as described, and may not be ethically allowed to share it with you. You do not need the authority to commit to solve the issue, you need to make sure that a person with the proper tools to address the issue has knowledge of it. Try as well to give hint and suggestions on how this person could look into the issue and observe it first-hand.
That being said, and depending on the tools available, actions might only be taken by the authority if the complaint comes from some independent source. So try to influence other people into complaining to said authority as well. The point is, if any kind of measure that may be understood as a punishment would need to be taken, no authority figure should do it over a single person's word alone. You would be lucky enough if this authority conducted any investigation to sanity-check your complaint, hence why I suggested giving hint on how to do so.
Then wait, and try to be satisfied with any sign of improvement, these things may improve gradually rather than abruptly.
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
As a classmate and a student I would strongly suggest you try connect and talk to your colleague. I am often amazed by the amount of issues people have which were completely left untreated with the directly concerned person. How would you feel if all of a sudden you are getting called out by some high authority because of something you did over and over again, but never though to be a problem? It may sound harsh at first, but people with a minimal level of maturity know that is better to respond well to a peer criticism than to an authority's warning.
That being said, such conversation should be conducted with care, patience and an open mind. You may find out he has reasons to behave as he does, and you may choose yourself to tolerate it. Truth be told, you'll likely just conclude that you fulfilled my "professional courtesy" recommendation.
Then you should talk to some authority, in a regular school this could be the Principal or vice-Principal, your university could have some teaching supervisor. Ideally this should be some one with authority over the teachers and with some responsibility level over the quality of the course you are taking.
I'll suggest you rehearse that conversation in front of a mirror. It will help scrapping argument parts which would sound like whining, and also avoids sounding emotional during the explanation. You should make it clear that some measures have already been taken, that the problems are recurring, and even if up to some point his situation may be understandable, it is poor practice to allow one student's behavior to severely penalize other students quality of learning. Be open-minded again, since in this case the authority may have better information on why the student behaves as described, and may not be ethically allowed to share it with you. You do not need the authority to commit to solve the issue, you need to make sure that a person with the proper tools to address the issue has knowledge of it. Try as well to give hint and suggestions on how this person could look into the issue and observe it first-hand.
That being said, and depending on the tools available, actions might only be taken by the authority if the complaint comes from some independent source. So try to influence other people into complaining to said authority as well. The point is, if any kind of measure that may be understood as a punishment would need to be taken, no authority figure should do it over a single person's word alone. You would be lucky enough if this authority conducted any investigation to sanity-check your complaint, hence why I suggested giving hint on how to do so.
Then wait, and try to be satisfied with any sign of improvement, these things may improve gradually rather than abruptly.
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
As a classmate and a student I would strongly suggest you try connect and talk to your colleague. I am often amazed by the amount of issues people have which were completely left untreated with the directly concerned person. How would you feel if all of a sudden you are getting called out by some high authority because of something you did over and over again, but never though to be a problem? It may sound harsh at first, but people with a minimal level of maturity know that is better to respond well to a peer criticism than to an authority's warning.
That being said, such conversation should be conducted with care, patience and an open mind. You may find out he has reasons to behave as he does, and you may choose yourself to tolerate it. Truth be told, you'll likely just conclude that you fulfilled my "professional courtesy" recommendation.
Then you should talk to some authority, in a regular school this could be the Principal or vice-Principal, your university could have some teaching supervisor. Ideally this should be some one with authority over the teachers and with some responsibility level over the quality of the course you are taking.
I'll suggest you rehearse that conversation in front of a mirror. It will help scrapping argument parts which would sound like whining, and also avoids sounding emotional during the explanation. You should make it clear that some measures have already been taken, that the problems are recurring, and even if up to some point his situation may be understandable, it is poor practice to allow one student's behavior to severely penalize other students quality of learning. Be open-minded again, since in this case the authority may have better information on why the student behaves as described, and may not be ethically allowed to share it with you. You do not need the authority to commit to solve the issue, you need to make sure that a person with the proper tools to address the issue has knowledge of it. Try as well to give hint and suggestions on how this person could look into the issue and observe it first-hand.
That being said, and depending on the tools available, actions might only be taken by the authority if the complaint comes from some independent source. So try to influence other people into complaining to said authority as well. The point is, if any kind of measure that may be understood as a punishment would need to be taken, no authority figure should do it over a single person's word alone. You would be lucky enough if this authority conducted any investigation to sanity-check your complaint, hence why I suggested giving hint on how to do so.
Then wait, and try to be satisfied with any sign of improvement, these things may improve gradually rather than abruptly.
New contributor
As a classmate and a student I would strongly suggest you try connect and talk to your colleague. I am often amazed by the amount of issues people have which were completely left untreated with the directly concerned person. How would you feel if all of a sudden you are getting called out by some high authority because of something you did over and over again, but never though to be a problem? It may sound harsh at first, but people with a minimal level of maturity know that is better to respond well to a peer criticism than to an authority's warning.
That being said, such conversation should be conducted with care, patience and an open mind. You may find out he has reasons to behave as he does, and you may choose yourself to tolerate it. Truth be told, you'll likely just conclude that you fulfilled my "professional courtesy" recommendation.
Then you should talk to some authority, in a regular school this could be the Principal or vice-Principal, your university could have some teaching supervisor. Ideally this should be some one with authority over the teachers and with some responsibility level over the quality of the course you are taking.
I'll suggest you rehearse that conversation in front of a mirror. It will help scrapping argument parts which would sound like whining, and also avoids sounding emotional during the explanation. You should make it clear that some measures have already been taken, that the problems are recurring, and even if up to some point his situation may be understandable, it is poor practice to allow one student's behavior to severely penalize other students quality of learning. Be open-minded again, since in this case the authority may have better information on why the student behaves as described, and may not be ethically allowed to share it with you. You do not need the authority to commit to solve the issue, you need to make sure that a person with the proper tools to address the issue has knowledge of it. Try as well to give hint and suggestions on how this person could look into the issue and observe it first-hand.
That being said, and depending on the tools available, actions might only be taken by the authority if the complaint comes from some independent source. So try to influence other people into complaining to said authority as well. The point is, if any kind of measure that may be understood as a punishment would need to be taken, no authority figure should do it over a single person's word alone. You would be lucky enough if this authority conducted any investigation to sanity-check your complaint, hence why I suggested giving hint on how to do so.
Then wait, and try to be satisfied with any sign of improvement, these things may improve gradually rather than abruptly.
New contributor
New contributor
answered yesterday
Mefitico
1335
1335
New contributor
New contributor
add a comment |
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4
The constraints of having learning difficulties are nowadays often handled by specialised units in the university. In case of - as in yours - contradictory requirements, you probably should discuss this with them first, and then, with their advice, with your lecturer (or even better, if they could give guidelines to the lecturer how to handle such obviously conflicting needs). Have you talked to them?
– Captain Emacs
yesterday
I have spoken to other staff members briefly- but not my lecturer. I will do that next, thank you!
– Emma
yesterday
Might this student also have learning difficulties to which this was the agreed upon response?
– Benjamin
19 hours ago
As a specific comment, I would insist in the future by a policy in the course syllabus that cell phones are not to be used during lecture. I would ask the student who is doing so in private to no longer do so. Simply state to him/her that this action is disruptive to the class and it is not an approach that is permitted carte blanch by anyone, even someone with a disability waiver.
– Jeffrey J Weimer
17 hours ago
1
I would be interested in answers to this question when learning disabilities aren't a factor. I've had very capable classmates in graduate courses act as though they're being lectured 1-1 and interrupt the professor with questions at a very dense rate, or try to go off on tangents related to their own research.
– Alex Reinking
11 hours ago