How does the Great Weapon Master feat's bonus-action attack work against a zombie that survives thanks to...
up vote
18
down vote
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I was thinking about the Great Weapon Master feat (PHB, p. 165), part of which reads:
On your turn, when you score a critical hit with a melee weapon or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action.
And the Undead Fortitude trait of Zombie creatures (Monster Manual, p. 316):
Undead Fortitude. If damage reduces the zombie to 0 hit points, it must make a Constitution saving throw with a DC of 5 + the damage taken, unless the damage is radiant or from a critical hit. On a success, the zombie drops to 1 hit point instead.
If a PC with the GWM feat drops the Zombie to 0 hit points with an non-crit, non-radiant damage attack and the Zombie succeeds on the saving throw, does the PC get another attack as a bonus action?
dnd-5e monsters feats undead
edited 2 days ago
V2Blast
17.8k248113
asked Nov 12 at 20:13
Breeg
1686
add a comment |
up vote
18
down vote
favorite
I was thinking about the Great Weapon Master feat (PHB, p. 165), part of which reads:
On your turn, when you score a critical hit with a melee weapon or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action.
And the Undead Fortitude trait of Zombie creatures (Monster Manual, p. 316):
Undead Fortitude. If damage reduces the zombie to 0 hit points, it must make a Constitution saving throw with a DC of 5 + the damage taken, unless the damage is radiant or from a critical hit. On a success, the zombie drops to 1 hit point instead.
If a PC with the GWM feat drops the Zombie to 0 hit points with an non-crit, non-radiant damage attack and the Zombie succeeds on the saving throw, does the PC get another attack as a bonus action?
dnd-5e monsters feats undead
edited 2 days ago
V2Blast
17.8k248113
asked Nov 12 at 20:13
Breeg
1686
Note that the rules-as-written tag is only used for special rules questions about very specific interactions. For normal questions (like this one) the tag is not needed. I have gone ahead and removed it for you.
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 12 at 20:23
2
You may want to wait and see how the voting weighs out before accepting an answer.
– ravery
Nov 12 at 20:32
3
There's definitely some contention here. While I appreciate accepting my answer, I think it'd be more helpful to you see how the voting turns out - but you are always free to accept the answer that makes sense and works for you (but I'd recommend waiting 24 hours to read and think.)
– NautArch
Nov 12 at 20:36
add a comment |
up vote
18
down vote
favorite
up vote
18
down vote
favorite
I was thinking about the Great Weapon Master feat (PHB, p. 165), part of which reads:
On your turn, when you score a critical hit with a melee weapon or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action.
And the Undead Fortitude trait of Zombie creatures (Monster Manual, p. 316):
Undead Fortitude. If damage reduces the zombie to 0 hit points, it must make a Constitution saving throw with a DC of 5 + the damage taken, unless the damage is radiant or from a critical hit. On a success, the zombie drops to 1 hit point instead.
If a PC with the GWM feat drops the Zombie to 0 hit points with an non-crit, non-radiant damage attack and the Zombie succeeds on the saving throw, does the PC get another attack as a bonus action?
dnd-5e monsters feats undead
edited 2 days ago
V2Blast
17.8k248113
asked Nov 12 at 20:13
Breeg
1686
I was thinking about the Great Weapon Master feat (PHB, p. 165), part of which reads:
On your turn, when you score a critical hit with a melee weapon or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action.
And the Undead Fortitude trait of Zombie creatures (Monster Manual, p. 316):
Undead Fortitude. If damage reduces the zombie to 0 hit points, it must make a Constitution saving throw with a DC of 5 + the damage taken, unless the damage is radiant or from a critical hit. On a success, the zombie drops to 1 hit point instead.
If a PC with the GWM feat drops the Zombie to 0 hit points with an non-crit, non-radiant damage attack and the Zombie succeeds on the saving throw, does the PC get another attack as a bonus action?
dnd-5e monsters feats undead
dnd-5e monsters feats undead
edited 2 days ago
V2Blast
17.8k248113
asked Nov 12 at 20:13
Breeg
1686
edited 2 days ago
V2Blast
17.8k248113
asked Nov 12 at 20:13
Breeg
1686
edited 2 days ago
V2Blast
17.8k248113
edited 2 days ago
V2Blast
17.8k248113
edited 2 days ago
V2Blast
17.8k248113
17.8k248113
asked Nov 12 at 20:13
Breeg
1686
asked Nov 12 at 20:13
Breeg
1686
asked Nov 12 at 20:13
Breeg
1686
1686
Note that the rules-as-written tag is only used for special rules questions about very specific interactions. For normal questions (like this one) the tag is not needed. I have gone ahead and removed it for you.
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 12 at 20:23
2
You may want to wait and see how the voting weighs out before accepting an answer.
– ravery
Nov 12 at 20:32
3
There's definitely some contention here. While I appreciate accepting my answer, I think it'd be more helpful to you see how the voting turns out - but you are always free to accept the answer that makes sense and works for you (but I'd recommend waiting 24 hours to read and think.)
– NautArch
Nov 12 at 20:36
add a comment |
Note that the rules-as-written tag is only used for special rules questions about very specific interactions. For normal questions (like this one) the tag is not needed. I have gone ahead and removed it for you.
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 12 at 20:23
2
You may want to wait and see how the voting weighs out before accepting an answer.
– ravery
Nov 12 at 20:32
3
There's definitely some contention here. While I appreciate accepting my answer, I think it'd be more helpful to you see how the voting turns out - but you are always free to accept the answer that makes sense and works for you (but I'd recommend waiting 24 hours to read and think.)
– NautArch
Nov 12 at 20:36
Note that the rules-as-written tag is only used for special rules questions about very specific interactions. For normal questions (like this one) the tag is not needed. I have gone ahead and removed it for you.
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 12 at 20:23
Note that the rules-as-written tag is only used for special rules questions about very specific interactions. For normal questions (like this one) the tag is not needed. I have gone ahead and removed it for you.
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 12 at 20:23
2
2
You may want to wait and see how the voting weighs out before accepting an answer.
– ravery
Nov 12 at 20:32
You may want to wait and see how the voting weighs out before accepting an answer.
– ravery
Nov 12 at 20:32
3
3
There's definitely some contention here. While I appreciate accepting my answer, I think it'd be more helpful to you see how the voting turns out - but you are always free to accept the answer that makes sense and works for you (but I'd recommend waiting 24 hours to read and think.)
– NautArch
Nov 12 at 20:36
There's definitely some contention here. While I appreciate accepting my answer, I think it'd be more helpful to you see how the voting turns out - but you are always free to accept the answer that makes sense and works for you (but I'd recommend waiting 24 hours to read and think.)
– NautArch
Nov 12 at 20:36
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
48
down vote
accepted
You don't get a second hit
Undead Fortitude says (emphasis mine):
On a success, the zombie drops to 1 hit point instead.
This indicates that Undead Fortitude interrupts damage. Similar to damage reduction, Undead Fortitude activates after the hit but before damage is taken. Thus, the undead never reaches 0 HP if it passes the Constitution Save, and the GWM bonus attack isn't activated.
Order of events:
- You make a lethal hit
- The undead makes a save
- It's HP becomes 1
- GWM isn't activated.
If the ability said something similar to "the undead recovers 1 HP on a succees" then he would have dropped to 0 HP and triggered GWM.
answered Nov 12 at 20:30
ravery
7,09411252
1
I did like this answer, but the comparison with disintegrate in the other answer swayed me to think this is actually wrong.
– SeriousBri
2 days ago
@ravery I unwound that direct reference to the already at 0HP barb. it is now only about relentless endurance vs disintegrate.
– NautArch
yesterday
You might include the information on reaction timing in XGtE pg5. It seems to support your position here.
– Matthew Green
35 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
26
down vote
Hit 'em baby, one more time.
The most important bit of Undead Fortitude is:
If damage reduces the zombie to 0 hit points
There is clearly a gate where the Zombie is at 0HP. At that point, they can make their save and possibly continue with 1 HP, but they have cleared the 0HP gate to initiate the GWM bonus action melee attack.
The zombie may finally end up at 1HP, but that doesn't change that they were reduced to 0HP and then made a save to finally end up at 1HP.
GWM only requires that you
reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one [melee attack].
And you have done this, it just didn't stick :)
The progression went from:
- Zombie at more than 0HP
- GWM hit succeeds, reducing zombie to 0HP.
- GWM allows for bonus action attack from reducing to 0hp.
- Zombie makes CON save and succeeds. HP now at 1.
- GWM can be used for bonus action attack to attack again because of Step 3.
Comparison with Avoiding Disintegrate by saving at 0HP to stay at 1HP.
The following errata answers what happens when a Barbarian with Relentless Endurance can avoid disintegration because they can avoid 0HP with a successful save.
Q: If the damage from disintegrate reduces a half-orc to 0 hit points, can Relentless Endurance prevent the orc from turning to ash?
A: If disintegrate reduces you to 0 hit points, you’re killed outright, as you turn to dust. If you’re a half-orc, Relentless Endurance can’t save you.
It's clear that the save won't save them, as they have still reached the 0HP gate that Disintegrate dictates.
GWM and Undead Fortitude fall under the same gate reaching of 0HP.
The narrative
A way of looking at this is the Zombie is brought down with the hit. It's makes the save and rises again from the (un)dead. But at one point, the zombie was at 0HP and down.
answered Nov 12 at 20:15
NautArch
49.8k6175337
2
This answer leaves many questions... like, can you attack the zombie with your second attack? If you do so, does that add to the damage inflicted stack with the initial hit to make it less likely to get back up? Honestly, I think the word instead makes it sound like that none of this actually happens, because it is replaced with the zombie going to 1 hp though...
– Shadow
2 days ago
4
I was inclined to this answer too, but "On a success, the zombie drops to 1 hit point instead." - How do you drop to 1 HP from below 1 hp? And how do you drop to 1 hp instead if you already dropped to 0 hp and are then dropping up to 1 hp? It makes even less sense than the alternative.
– DonQuiKong
2 days ago
3
The comparison to disintegrate and Relentless Endurance convinced me that this is the right answer. Disintegrate is worded similarly to GWM, and Relentless Endurance is worded similarly to Undead Fortitude including the word "instead".
– Kamil Drakari
2 days ago
1
Relentless Endurance has a clause in it that specifically makes it not work if the half-orc would die outright, and disintegration has a a clause that it kills outright at 0hp. Their interaction is unique. On the other hand, Undead Fortitude and GWM have no such clauses, so they don't interract in the same way.
– Ruse
2 days ago
6
@DonQuiKong I think the answer is that the wording is simply inconsistent. How can you "drop to 1 hp instead" if that action is conditional on "If damage reduces the zombie to 0 hit points"? The success would prevent its own trigger condition. If it said "if damage would reduce the zombie to 0" then it'd be definitive but otherwise I don't know.
– mbrig
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
48
down vote
accepted
You don't get a second hit
Undead Fortitude says (emphasis mine):
On a success, the zombie drops to 1 hit point instead.
This indicates that Undead Fortitude interrupts damage. Similar to damage reduction, Undead Fortitude activates after the hit but before damage is taken. Thus, the undead never reaches 0 HP if it passes the Constitution Save, and the GWM bonus attack isn't activated.
Order of events:
- You make a lethal hit
- The undead makes a save
- It's HP becomes 1
- GWM isn't activated.
If the ability said something similar to "the undead recovers 1 HP on a succees" then he would have dropped to 0 HP and triggered GWM.
answered Nov 12 at 20:30
ravery
7,09411252
1
I did like this answer, but the comparison with disintegrate in the other answer swayed me to think this is actually wrong.
– SeriousBri
2 days ago
@ravery I unwound that direct reference to the already at 0HP barb. it is now only about relentless endurance vs disintegrate.
– NautArch
yesterday
You might include the information on reaction timing in XGtE pg5. It seems to support your position here.
– Matthew Green
35 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
48
down vote
accepted
You don't get a second hit
Undead Fortitude says (emphasis mine):
On a success, the zombie drops to 1 hit point instead.
This indicates that Undead Fortitude interrupts damage. Similar to damage reduction, Undead Fortitude activates after the hit but before damage is taken. Thus, the undead never reaches 0 HP if it passes the Constitution Save, and the GWM bonus attack isn't activated.
Order of events:
- You make a lethal hit
- The undead makes a save
- It's HP becomes 1
- GWM isn't activated.
If the ability said something similar to "the undead recovers 1 HP on a succees" then he would have dropped to 0 HP and triggered GWM.
answered Nov 12 at 20:30
ravery
7,09411252
1
I did like this answer, but the comparison with disintegrate in the other answer swayed me to think this is actually wrong.
– SeriousBri
2 days ago
@ravery I unwound that direct reference to the already at 0HP barb. it is now only about relentless endurance vs disintegrate.
– NautArch
yesterday
You might include the information on reaction timing in XGtE pg5. It seems to support your position here.
– Matthew Green
35 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
48
down vote
accepted
up vote
48
down vote
accepted
You don't get a second hit
Undead Fortitude says (emphasis mine):
On a success, the zombie drops to 1 hit point instead.
This indicates that Undead Fortitude interrupts damage. Similar to damage reduction, Undead Fortitude activates after the hit but before damage is taken. Thus, the undead never reaches 0 HP if it passes the Constitution Save, and the GWM bonus attack isn't activated.
Order of events:
- You make a lethal hit
- The undead makes a save
- It's HP becomes 1
- GWM isn't activated.
If the ability said something similar to "the undead recovers 1 HP on a succees" then he would have dropped to 0 HP and triggered GWM.
answered Nov 12 at 20:30
ravery
7,09411252
You don't get a second hit
Undead Fortitude says (emphasis mine):
On a success, the zombie drops to 1 hit point instead.
This indicates that Undead Fortitude interrupts damage. Similar to damage reduction, Undead Fortitude activates after the hit but before damage is taken. Thus, the undead never reaches 0 HP if it passes the Constitution Save, and the GWM bonus attack isn't activated.
Order of events:
- You make a lethal hit
- The undead makes a save
- It's HP becomes 1
- GWM isn't activated.
If the ability said something similar to "the undead recovers 1 HP on a succees" then he would have dropped to 0 HP and triggered GWM.
answered Nov 12 at 20:30
ravery
7,09411252
edited Nov 12 at 20:44
answered Nov 12 at 20:30
ravery
7,09411252
answered Nov 12 at 20:30
ravery
7,09411252
answered Nov 12 at 20:30
ravery
7,09411252
7,09411252
1
I did like this answer, but the comparison with disintegrate in the other answer swayed me to think this is actually wrong.
– SeriousBri
2 days ago
@ravery I unwound that direct reference to the already at 0HP barb. it is now only about relentless endurance vs disintegrate.
– NautArch
yesterday
You might include the information on reaction timing in XGtE pg5. It seems to support your position here.
– Matthew Green
35 mins ago
add a comment |
1
I did like this answer, but the comparison with disintegrate in the other answer swayed me to think this is actually wrong.
– SeriousBri
2 days ago
@ravery I unwound that direct reference to the already at 0HP barb. it is now only about relentless endurance vs disintegrate.
– NautArch
yesterday
You might include the information on reaction timing in XGtE pg5. It seems to support your position here.
– Matthew Green
35 mins ago
1
1
I did like this answer, but the comparison with disintegrate in the other answer swayed me to think this is actually wrong.
– SeriousBri
2 days ago
I did like this answer, but the comparison with disintegrate in the other answer swayed me to think this is actually wrong.
– SeriousBri
2 days ago
@ravery I unwound that direct reference to the already at 0HP barb. it is now only about relentless endurance vs disintegrate.
– NautArch
yesterday
@ravery I unwound that direct reference to the already at 0HP barb. it is now only about relentless endurance vs disintegrate.
– NautArch
yesterday
You might include the information on reaction timing in XGtE pg5. It seems to support your position here.
– Matthew Green
35 mins ago
You might include the information on reaction timing in XGtE pg5. It seems to support your position here.
– Matthew Green
35 mins ago
add a comment |
up vote
26
down vote
Hit 'em baby, one more time.
The most important bit of Undead Fortitude is:
If damage reduces the zombie to 0 hit points
There is clearly a gate where the Zombie is at 0HP. At that point, they can make their save and possibly continue with 1 HP, but they have cleared the 0HP gate to initiate the GWM bonus action melee attack.
The zombie may finally end up at 1HP, but that doesn't change that they were reduced to 0HP and then made a save to finally end up at 1HP.
GWM only requires that you
reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one [melee attack].
And you have done this, it just didn't stick :)
The progression went from:
- Zombie at more than 0HP
- GWM hit succeeds, reducing zombie to 0HP.
- GWM allows for bonus action attack from reducing to 0hp.
- Zombie makes CON save and succeeds. HP now at 1.
- GWM can be used for bonus action attack to attack again because of Step 3.
Comparison with Avoiding Disintegrate by saving at 0HP to stay at 1HP.
The following errata answers what happens when a Barbarian with Relentless Endurance can avoid disintegration because they can avoid 0HP with a successful save.
Q: If the damage from disintegrate reduces a half-orc to 0 hit points, can Relentless Endurance prevent the orc from turning to ash?
A: If disintegrate reduces you to 0 hit points, you’re killed outright, as you turn to dust. If you’re a half-orc, Relentless Endurance can’t save you.
It's clear that the save won't save them, as they have still reached the 0HP gate that Disintegrate dictates.
GWM and Undead Fortitude fall under the same gate reaching of 0HP.
The narrative
A way of looking at this is the Zombie is brought down with the hit. It's makes the save and rises again from the (un)dead. But at one point, the zombie was at 0HP and down.
answered Nov 12 at 20:15
NautArch
49.8k6175337
2
This answer leaves many questions... like, can you attack the zombie with your second attack? If you do so, does that add to the damage inflicted stack with the initial hit to make it less likely to get back up? Honestly, I think the word instead makes it sound like that none of this actually happens, because it is replaced with the zombie going to 1 hp though...
– Shadow
2 days ago
4
I was inclined to this answer too, but "On a success, the zombie drops to 1 hit point instead." - How do you drop to 1 HP from below 1 hp? And how do you drop to 1 hp instead if you already dropped to 0 hp and are then dropping up to 1 hp? It makes even less sense than the alternative.
– DonQuiKong
2 days ago
3
The comparison to disintegrate and Relentless Endurance convinced me that this is the right answer. Disintegrate is worded similarly to GWM, and Relentless Endurance is worded similarly to Undead Fortitude including the word "instead".
– Kamil Drakari
2 days ago
1
Relentless Endurance has a clause in it that specifically makes it not work if the half-orc would die outright, and disintegration has a a clause that it kills outright at 0hp. Their interaction is unique. On the other hand, Undead Fortitude and GWM have no such clauses, so they don't interract in the same way.
– Ruse
2 days ago
6
@DonQuiKong I think the answer is that the wording is simply inconsistent. How can you "drop to 1 hp instead" if that action is conditional on "If damage reduces the zombie to 0 hit points"? The success would prevent its own trigger condition. If it said "if damage would reduce the zombie to 0" then it'd be definitive but otherwise I don't know.
– mbrig
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
up vote
26
down vote
Hit 'em baby, one more time.
The most important bit of Undead Fortitude is:
If damage reduces the zombie to 0 hit points
There is clearly a gate where the Zombie is at 0HP. At that point, they can make their save and possibly continue with 1 HP, but they have cleared the 0HP gate to initiate the GWM bonus action melee attack.
The zombie may finally end up at 1HP, but that doesn't change that they were reduced to 0HP and then made a save to finally end up at 1HP.
GWM only requires that you
reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one [melee attack].
And you have done this, it just didn't stick :)
The progression went from:
- Zombie at more than 0HP
- GWM hit succeeds, reducing zombie to 0HP.
- GWM allows for bonus action attack from reducing to 0hp.
- Zombie makes CON save and succeeds. HP now at 1.
- GWM can be used for bonus action attack to attack again because of Step 3.
Comparison with Avoiding Disintegrate by saving at 0HP to stay at 1HP.
The following errata answers what happens when a Barbarian with Relentless Endurance can avoid disintegration because they can avoid 0HP with a successful save.
Q: If the damage from disintegrate reduces a half-orc to 0 hit points, can Relentless Endurance prevent the orc from turning to ash?
A: If disintegrate reduces you to 0 hit points, you’re killed outright, as you turn to dust. If you’re a half-orc, Relentless Endurance can’t save you.
It's clear that the save won't save them, as they have still reached the 0HP gate that Disintegrate dictates.
GWM and Undead Fortitude fall under the same gate reaching of 0HP.
The narrative
A way of looking at this is the Zombie is brought down with the hit. It's makes the save and rises again from the (un)dead. But at one point, the zombie was at 0HP and down.
answered Nov 12 at 20:15
NautArch
49.8k6175337
2
This answer leaves many questions... like, can you attack the zombie with your second attack? If you do so, does that add to the damage inflicted stack with the initial hit to make it less likely to get back up? Honestly, I think the word instead makes it sound like that none of this actually happens, because it is replaced with the zombie going to 1 hp though...
– Shadow
2 days ago
4
I was inclined to this answer too, but "On a success, the zombie drops to 1 hit point instead." - How do you drop to 1 HP from below 1 hp? And how do you drop to 1 hp instead if you already dropped to 0 hp and are then dropping up to 1 hp? It makes even less sense than the alternative.
– DonQuiKong
2 days ago
3
The comparison to disintegrate and Relentless Endurance convinced me that this is the right answer. Disintegrate is worded similarly to GWM, and Relentless Endurance is worded similarly to Undead Fortitude including the word "instead".
– Kamil Drakari
2 days ago
1
Relentless Endurance has a clause in it that specifically makes it not work if the half-orc would die outright, and disintegration has a a clause that it kills outright at 0hp. Their interaction is unique. On the other hand, Undead Fortitude and GWM have no such clauses, so they don't interract in the same way.
– Ruse
2 days ago
6
@DonQuiKong I think the answer is that the wording is simply inconsistent. How can you "drop to 1 hp instead" if that action is conditional on "If damage reduces the zombie to 0 hit points"? The success would prevent its own trigger condition. If it said "if damage would reduce the zombie to 0" then it'd be definitive but otherwise I don't know.
– mbrig
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
up vote
26
down vote
up vote
26
down vote
Hit 'em baby, one more time.
The most important bit of Undead Fortitude is:
If damage reduces the zombie to 0 hit points
There is clearly a gate where the Zombie is at 0HP. At that point, they can make their save and possibly continue with 1 HP, but they have cleared the 0HP gate to initiate the GWM bonus action melee attack.
The zombie may finally end up at 1HP, but that doesn't change that they were reduced to 0HP and then made a save to finally end up at 1HP.
GWM only requires that you
reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one [melee attack].
And you have done this, it just didn't stick :)
The progression went from:
- Zombie at more than 0HP
- GWM hit succeeds, reducing zombie to 0HP.
- GWM allows for bonus action attack from reducing to 0hp.
- Zombie makes CON save and succeeds. HP now at 1.
- GWM can be used for bonus action attack to attack again because of Step 3.
Comparison with Avoiding Disintegrate by saving at 0HP to stay at 1HP.
The following errata answers what happens when a Barbarian with Relentless Endurance can avoid disintegration because they can avoid 0HP with a successful save.
Q: If the damage from disintegrate reduces a half-orc to 0 hit points, can Relentless Endurance prevent the orc from turning to ash?
A: If disintegrate reduces you to 0 hit points, you’re killed outright, as you turn to dust. If you’re a half-orc, Relentless Endurance can’t save you.
It's clear that the save won't save them, as they have still reached the 0HP gate that Disintegrate dictates.
GWM and Undead Fortitude fall under the same gate reaching of 0HP.
The narrative
A way of looking at this is the Zombie is brought down with the hit. It's makes the save and rises again from the (un)dead. But at one point, the zombie was at 0HP and down.
answered Nov 12 at 20:15
NautArch
49.8k6175337
Hit 'em baby, one more time.
The most important bit of Undead Fortitude is:
If damage reduces the zombie to 0 hit points
There is clearly a gate where the Zombie is at 0HP. At that point, they can make their save and possibly continue with 1 HP, but they have cleared the 0HP gate to initiate the GWM bonus action melee attack.
The zombie may finally end up at 1HP, but that doesn't change that they were reduced to 0HP and then made a save to finally end up at 1HP.
GWM only requires that you
reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one [melee attack].
And you have done this, it just didn't stick :)
The progression went from:
- Zombie at more than 0HP
- GWM hit succeeds, reducing zombie to 0HP.
- GWM allows for bonus action attack from reducing to 0hp.
- Zombie makes CON save and succeeds. HP now at 1.
- GWM can be used for bonus action attack to attack again because of Step 3.
Comparison with Avoiding Disintegrate by saving at 0HP to stay at 1HP.
The following errata answers what happens when a Barbarian with Relentless Endurance can avoid disintegration because they can avoid 0HP with a successful save.
Q: If the damage from disintegrate reduces a half-orc to 0 hit points, can Relentless Endurance prevent the orc from turning to ash?
A: If disintegrate reduces you to 0 hit points, you’re killed outright, as you turn to dust. If you’re a half-orc, Relentless Endurance can’t save you.
It's clear that the save won't save them, as they have still reached the 0HP gate that Disintegrate dictates.
GWM and Undead Fortitude fall under the same gate reaching of 0HP.
The narrative
A way of looking at this is the Zombie is brought down with the hit. It's makes the save and rises again from the (un)dead. But at one point, the zombie was at 0HP and down.
answered Nov 12 at 20:15
NautArch
49.8k6175337
edited Nov 12 at 21:53
answered Nov 12 at 20:15
NautArch
49.8k6175337
answered Nov 12 at 20:15
NautArch
49.8k6175337
answered Nov 12 at 20:15
NautArch
49.8k6175337
49.8k6175337
2
This answer leaves many questions... like, can you attack the zombie with your second attack? If you do so, does that add to the damage inflicted stack with the initial hit to make it less likely to get back up? Honestly, I think the word instead makes it sound like that none of this actually happens, because it is replaced with the zombie going to 1 hp though...
– Shadow
2 days ago
4
I was inclined to this answer too, but "On a success, the zombie drops to 1 hit point instead." - How do you drop to 1 HP from below 1 hp? And how do you drop to 1 hp instead if you already dropped to 0 hp and are then dropping up to 1 hp? It makes even less sense than the alternative.
– DonQuiKong
2 days ago
3
The comparison to disintegrate and Relentless Endurance convinced me that this is the right answer. Disintegrate is worded similarly to GWM, and Relentless Endurance is worded similarly to Undead Fortitude including the word "instead".
– Kamil Drakari
2 days ago
1
Relentless Endurance has a clause in it that specifically makes it not work if the half-orc would die outright, and disintegration has a a clause that it kills outright at 0hp. Their interaction is unique. On the other hand, Undead Fortitude and GWM have no such clauses, so they don't interract in the same way.
– Ruse
2 days ago
6
@DonQuiKong I think the answer is that the wording is simply inconsistent. How can you "drop to 1 hp instead" if that action is conditional on "If damage reduces the zombie to 0 hit points"? The success would prevent its own trigger condition. If it said "if damage would reduce the zombie to 0" then it'd be definitive but otherwise I don't know.
– mbrig
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
2
This answer leaves many questions... like, can you attack the zombie with your second attack? If you do so, does that add to the damage inflicted stack with the initial hit to make it less likely to get back up? Honestly, I think the word instead makes it sound like that none of this actually happens, because it is replaced with the zombie going to 1 hp though...
– Shadow
2 days ago
4
I was inclined to this answer too, but "On a success, the zombie drops to 1 hit point instead." - How do you drop to 1 HP from below 1 hp? And how do you drop to 1 hp instead if you already dropped to 0 hp and are then dropping up to 1 hp? It makes even less sense than the alternative.
– DonQuiKong
2 days ago
3
The comparison to disintegrate and Relentless Endurance convinced me that this is the right answer. Disintegrate is worded similarly to GWM, and Relentless Endurance is worded similarly to Undead Fortitude including the word "instead".
– Kamil Drakari
2 days ago
1
Relentless Endurance has a clause in it that specifically makes it not work if the half-orc would die outright, and disintegration has a a clause that it kills outright at 0hp. Their interaction is unique. On the other hand, Undead Fortitude and GWM have no such clauses, so they don't interract in the same way.
– Ruse
2 days ago
6
@DonQuiKong I think the answer is that the wording is simply inconsistent. How can you "drop to 1 hp instead" if that action is conditional on "If damage reduces the zombie to 0 hit points"? The success would prevent its own trigger condition. If it said "if damage would reduce the zombie to 0" then it'd be definitive but otherwise I don't know.
– mbrig
2 days ago
2
2
This answer leaves many questions... like, can you attack the zombie with your second attack? If you do so, does that add to the damage inflicted stack with the initial hit to make it less likely to get back up? Honestly, I think the word instead makes it sound like that none of this actually happens, because it is replaced with the zombie going to 1 hp though...
– Shadow
2 days ago
This answer leaves many questions... like, can you attack the zombie with your second attack? If you do so, does that add to the damage inflicted stack with the initial hit to make it less likely to get back up? Honestly, I think the word instead makes it sound like that none of this actually happens, because it is replaced with the zombie going to 1 hp though...
– Shadow
2 days ago
4
4
I was inclined to this answer too, but "On a success, the zombie drops to 1 hit point instead." - How do you drop to 1 HP from below 1 hp? And how do you drop to 1 hp instead if you already dropped to 0 hp and are then dropping up to 1 hp? It makes even less sense than the alternative.
– DonQuiKong
2 days ago
I was inclined to this answer too, but "On a success, the zombie drops to 1 hit point instead." - How do you drop to 1 HP from below 1 hp? And how do you drop to 1 hp instead if you already dropped to 0 hp and are then dropping up to 1 hp? It makes even less sense than the alternative.
– DonQuiKong
2 days ago
3
3
The comparison to disintegrate and Relentless Endurance convinced me that this is the right answer. Disintegrate is worded similarly to GWM, and Relentless Endurance is worded similarly to Undead Fortitude including the word "instead".
– Kamil Drakari
2 days ago
The comparison to disintegrate and Relentless Endurance convinced me that this is the right answer. Disintegrate is worded similarly to GWM, and Relentless Endurance is worded similarly to Undead Fortitude including the word "instead".
– Kamil Drakari
2 days ago
1
1
Relentless Endurance has a clause in it that specifically makes it not work if the half-orc would die outright, and disintegration has a a clause that it kills outright at 0hp. Their interaction is unique. On the other hand, Undead Fortitude and GWM have no such clauses, so they don't interract in the same way.
– Ruse
2 days ago
Relentless Endurance has a clause in it that specifically makes it not work if the half-orc would die outright, and disintegration has a a clause that it kills outright at 0hp. Their interaction is unique. On the other hand, Undead Fortitude and GWM have no such clauses, so they don't interract in the same way.
– Ruse
2 days ago
6
6
@DonQuiKong I think the answer is that the wording is simply inconsistent. How can you "drop to 1 hp instead" if that action is conditional on "If damage reduces the zombie to 0 hit points"? The success would prevent its own trigger condition. If it said "if damage would reduce the zombie to 0" then it'd be definitive but otherwise I don't know.
– mbrig
2 days ago
@DonQuiKong I think the answer is that the wording is simply inconsistent. How can you "drop to 1 hp instead" if that action is conditional on "If damage reduces the zombie to 0 hit points"? The success would prevent its own trigger condition. If it said "if damage would reduce the zombie to 0" then it'd be definitive but otherwise I don't know.
– mbrig
2 days ago
|
show 2 more comments
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Note that the rules-as-written tag is only used for special rules questions about very specific interactions. For normal questions (like this one) the tag is not needed. I have gone ahead and removed it for you.
– Rubiksmoose
Nov 12 at 20:23
2
You may want to wait and see how the voting weighs out before accepting an answer.
– ravery
Nov 12 at 20:32
3
There's definitely some contention here. While I appreciate accepting my answer, I think it'd be more helpful to you see how the voting turns out - but you are always free to accept the answer that makes sense and works for you (but I'd recommend waiting 24 hours to read and think.)
– NautArch
Nov 12 at 20:36