Linksys wireless router will not hardware reset
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all. I'm unable to make my router perform a hardware reset, and I cannot understand why. The router is a WRT54GC (the little one).
All was working well, except that my iPhone could not connect to the wireless. I found that the router was only allowing AES encryption on WPA2 Personal mode, so I upgraded the firmware. I updated the firmware to Ver.1.06.1, and everything went screwy.
- The router is no longer showing up in the WiFi list (as Linksys, or its previous network name).
- Wiring into the router gives me an IP address from my ISP (24.121.121.XXX).
- Attempting to do a hardware reset, but the power light never starts flashing and the router does not seem to reboot.
- My machine wired in is still online with no interruption in WoW.
- Pulling the power cord to force a reset returns it to the same state.
I even went so far as to pull up my previous IP address (from DynDNS) and try to connect to that, but it wont even ping.
What I'm trying to find out is: Did the new firmware fry the thing, or is there some way to fix this?
Thanks in advance for any help.
networking wireless-networking
edited Feb 7 at 19:01
Hennes
59.4k793144
asked Jun 13 '10 at 3:57
Jack M.Jack M.
2,98811821
add a comment |
all. I'm unable to make my router perform a hardware reset, and I cannot understand why. The router is a WRT54GC (the little one).
All was working well, except that my iPhone could not connect to the wireless. I found that the router was only allowing AES encryption on WPA2 Personal mode, so I upgraded the firmware. I updated the firmware to Ver.1.06.1, and everything went screwy.
- The router is no longer showing up in the WiFi list (as Linksys, or its previous network name).
- Wiring into the router gives me an IP address from my ISP (24.121.121.XXX).
- Attempting to do a hardware reset, but the power light never starts flashing and the router does not seem to reboot.
- My machine wired in is still online with no interruption in WoW.
- Pulling the power cord to force a reset returns it to the same state.
I even went so far as to pull up my previous IP address (from DynDNS) and try to connect to that, but it wont even ping.
What I'm trying to find out is: Did the new firmware fry the thing, or is there some way to fix this?
Thanks in advance for any help.
networking wireless-networking
edited Feb 7 at 19:01
Hennes
59.4k793144
asked Jun 13 '10 at 3:57
Jack M.Jack M.
2,98811821
1
Just FYI - Using TKIP instead of AES defeats the purpose of WPA2 and will drop the wireless access point into WPA/WPA2 mixed mode. iPhones have no problem using WPA2+AES.
– MDMarra
Jun 13 '10 at 22:29
I just know what I read: superuser.com/questions/75937/ipod-touch-wifi-problems
– Jack M.
Jun 14 '10 at 14:26
I had an iPhone and currently have an iPod touch, I've configured them both to work with my home network (WPA2 PSK) and work network (WPA2 Enterprise) and both work. My comment about TKIP vs. AES was that WPA2 was created to close a vulnerability in the TKIP algorithm that WPA used. This was solved by switching to AES as the standard encryption for WPA2. Using TKIP with WPA2 is the same as using WPA for all intents and purposes.
– MDMarra
Jun 14 '10 at 15:47
There are apparently ways to de-brick a router via USB and a serial cable: myopenrouter.com/article/… Didn't search for LinkSys methods, but maybe they exist.
– Demis
Oct 10 '17 at 17:33
add a comment |
all. I'm unable to make my router perform a hardware reset, and I cannot understand why. The router is a WRT54GC (the little one).
All was working well, except that my iPhone could not connect to the wireless. I found that the router was only allowing AES encryption on WPA2 Personal mode, so I upgraded the firmware. I updated the firmware to Ver.1.06.1, and everything went screwy.
- The router is no longer showing up in the WiFi list (as Linksys, or its previous network name).
- Wiring into the router gives me an IP address from my ISP (24.121.121.XXX).
- Attempting to do a hardware reset, but the power light never starts flashing and the router does not seem to reboot.
- My machine wired in is still online with no interruption in WoW.
- Pulling the power cord to force a reset returns it to the same state.
I even went so far as to pull up my previous IP address (from DynDNS) and try to connect to that, but it wont even ping.
What I'm trying to find out is: Did the new firmware fry the thing, or is there some way to fix this?
Thanks in advance for any help.
networking wireless-networking
edited Feb 7 at 19:01
Hennes
59.4k793144
asked Jun 13 '10 at 3:57
Jack M.Jack M.
2,98811821
all. I'm unable to make my router perform a hardware reset, and I cannot understand why. The router is a WRT54GC (the little one).
All was working well, except that my iPhone could not connect to the wireless. I found that the router was only allowing AES encryption on WPA2 Personal mode, so I upgraded the firmware. I updated the firmware to Ver.1.06.1, and everything went screwy.
- The router is no longer showing up in the WiFi list (as Linksys, or its previous network name).
- Wiring into the router gives me an IP address from my ISP (24.121.121.XXX).
- Attempting to do a hardware reset, but the power light never starts flashing and the router does not seem to reboot.
- My machine wired in is still online with no interruption in WoW.
- Pulling the power cord to force a reset returns it to the same state.
I even went so far as to pull up my previous IP address (from DynDNS) and try to connect to that, but it wont even ping.
What I'm trying to find out is: Did the new firmware fry the thing, or is there some way to fix this?
Thanks in advance for any help.
networking wireless-networking
networking wireless-networking
edited Feb 7 at 19:01
Hennes
59.4k793144
asked Jun 13 '10 at 3:57
Jack M.Jack M.
2,98811821
edited Feb 7 at 19:01
Hennes
59.4k793144
asked Jun 13 '10 at 3:57
Jack M.Jack M.
2,98811821
edited Feb 7 at 19:01
Hennes
59.4k793144
edited Feb 7 at 19:01
Hennes
59.4k793144
edited Feb 7 at 19:01
Hennes
59.4k793144
59.4k793144
asked Jun 13 '10 at 3:57
Jack M.Jack M.
2,98811821
asked Jun 13 '10 at 3:57
Jack M.Jack M.
2,98811821
asked Jun 13 '10 at 3:57
Jack M.Jack M.
2,98811821
2,98811821
1
Just FYI - Using TKIP instead of AES defeats the purpose of WPA2 and will drop the wireless access point into WPA/WPA2 mixed mode. iPhones have no problem using WPA2+AES.
– MDMarra
Jun 13 '10 at 22:29
I just know what I read: superuser.com/questions/75937/ipod-touch-wifi-problems
– Jack M.
Jun 14 '10 at 14:26
I had an iPhone and currently have an iPod touch, I've configured them both to work with my home network (WPA2 PSK) and work network (WPA2 Enterprise) and both work. My comment about TKIP vs. AES was that WPA2 was created to close a vulnerability in the TKIP algorithm that WPA used. This was solved by switching to AES as the standard encryption for WPA2. Using TKIP with WPA2 is the same as using WPA for all intents and purposes.
– MDMarra
Jun 14 '10 at 15:47
There are apparently ways to de-brick a router via USB and a serial cable: myopenrouter.com/article/… Didn't search for LinkSys methods, but maybe they exist.
– Demis
Oct 10 '17 at 17:33
add a comment |
1
Just FYI - Using TKIP instead of AES defeats the purpose of WPA2 and will drop the wireless access point into WPA/WPA2 mixed mode. iPhones have no problem using WPA2+AES.
– MDMarra
Jun 13 '10 at 22:29
I just know what I read: superuser.com/questions/75937/ipod-touch-wifi-problems
– Jack M.
Jun 14 '10 at 14:26
I had an iPhone and currently have an iPod touch, I've configured them both to work with my home network (WPA2 PSK) and work network (WPA2 Enterprise) and both work. My comment about TKIP vs. AES was that WPA2 was created to close a vulnerability in the TKIP algorithm that WPA used. This was solved by switching to AES as the standard encryption for WPA2. Using TKIP with WPA2 is the same as using WPA for all intents and purposes.
– MDMarra
Jun 14 '10 at 15:47
There are apparently ways to de-brick a router via USB and a serial cable: myopenrouter.com/article/… Didn't search for LinkSys methods, but maybe they exist.
– Demis
Oct 10 '17 at 17:33
1
1
Just FYI - Using TKIP instead of AES defeats the purpose of WPA2 and will drop the wireless access point into WPA/WPA2 mixed mode. iPhones have no problem using WPA2+AES.
– MDMarra
Jun 13 '10 at 22:29
Just FYI - Using TKIP instead of AES defeats the purpose of WPA2 and will drop the wireless access point into WPA/WPA2 mixed mode. iPhones have no problem using WPA2+AES.
– MDMarra
Jun 13 '10 at 22:29
I just know what I read: superuser.com/questions/75937/ipod-touch-wifi-problems
– Jack M.
Jun 14 '10 at 14:26
I just know what I read: superuser.com/questions/75937/ipod-touch-wifi-problems
– Jack M.
Jun 14 '10 at 14:26
I had an iPhone and currently have an iPod touch, I've configured them both to work with my home network (WPA2 PSK) and work network (WPA2 Enterprise) and both work. My comment about TKIP vs. AES was that WPA2 was created to close a vulnerability in the TKIP algorithm that WPA used. This was solved by switching to AES as the standard encryption for WPA2. Using TKIP with WPA2 is the same as using WPA for all intents and purposes.
– MDMarra
Jun 14 '10 at 15:47
I had an iPhone and currently have an iPod touch, I've configured them both to work with my home network (WPA2 PSK) and work network (WPA2 Enterprise) and both work. My comment about TKIP vs. AES was that WPA2 was created to close a vulnerability in the TKIP algorithm that WPA used. This was solved by switching to AES as the standard encryption for WPA2. Using TKIP with WPA2 is the same as using WPA for all intents and purposes.
– MDMarra
Jun 14 '10 at 15:47
There are apparently ways to de-brick a router via USB and a serial cable: myopenrouter.com/article/… Didn't search for LinkSys methods, but maybe they exist.
– Demis
Oct 10 '17 at 17:33
There are apparently ways to de-brick a router via USB and a serial cable: myopenrouter.com/article/… Didn't search for LinkSys methods, but maybe they exist.
– Demis
Oct 10 '17 at 17:33
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
If the router is 'bricked' you may have to resort to more drastic measures :(
First thing to try is the 30/30/30 reset:
- Disconnect all network cables, not the power cable.
- Push reset button for 30 secs.
- Without releasing reset button, disconnect power lead.
- Hold the reset button for another 30 secs.
- Replug the power lead.
- Continue holding the reset button for another 30 secs.
- Release the reset button and leave the router for about 10 secs.
- Disconnect power cord for another 10 secs and then reconnect.
With any luck that may have reset the router. If not (you don't mention which model linksys) you could take a look here:
The Wrt54g Revival Guide
There are similar routines for other models.
answered Jun 13 '10 at 5:39
PulsePulse
4,32611318
oops. It's a WRT54GC, I'll add that to the post. I tried the 30/30/30 reset. No avail. =-[
– Jack M.
Jun 13 '10 at 22:19
1
Unfortunately, it does sound like the firmware update went wrong somewhere. In reality, I think you have two options, try to short pins 15 and 16 on the flash chip (as described in the 'Revival guide) or accept that it's dead and go for a new one :(
– Pulse
Jun 14 '10 at 1:32
This was the solution that worked for me, for a LinkSys WRT54GL with Tomato installed. The Tomato firmware was still active afterwards, so it doesn't reset to "factory" defaults, just resets the firmware options - so if your firmware OS itself is corrupt it may not work.
– Demis
Oct 10 '17 at 17:30
add a comment |
It appears that this router is simply dead. Either the firmware I installed was corrupt, or the thing just gave up on life.
The solution is: Go buy a new router if the above doesn't work.
answered Jul 14 '10 at 21:44
Jack M.Jack M.
2,98811821
add a comment |
I had a similar problem a year ago with a Linksys Router. Mine ended up just being dead. I had used it for about 8-9 months when this happened and I tried a ton of different things to get it to hardware reset with no luck. I am not saying yours is dead, just that there is a small chance that it is!
answered Jun 13 '10 at 22:49
dr.modenadr.modena
1
add a comment |
I have a Linksys WRT 160N and the 30-30-30 rule doesn't work. What works for me is I put the box in the freezer for 10-15min. Then it powers up normally.
answered Jul 16 '14 at 12:08
drejdrej
1
2
What made you do this as a solution?
– Matthew Williams
Jul 16 '14 at 13:21
add a comment |
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4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
If the router is 'bricked' you may have to resort to more drastic measures :(
First thing to try is the 30/30/30 reset:
- Disconnect all network cables, not the power cable.
- Push reset button for 30 secs.
- Without releasing reset button, disconnect power lead.
- Hold the reset button for another 30 secs.
- Replug the power lead.
- Continue holding the reset button for another 30 secs.
- Release the reset button and leave the router for about 10 secs.
- Disconnect power cord for another 10 secs and then reconnect.
With any luck that may have reset the router. If not (you don't mention which model linksys) you could take a look here:
The Wrt54g Revival Guide
There are similar routines for other models.
answered Jun 13 '10 at 5:39
PulsePulse
4,32611318
oops. It's a WRT54GC, I'll add that to the post. I tried the 30/30/30 reset. No avail. =-[
– Jack M.
Jun 13 '10 at 22:19
1
Unfortunately, it does sound like the firmware update went wrong somewhere. In reality, I think you have two options, try to short pins 15 and 16 on the flash chip (as described in the 'Revival guide) or accept that it's dead and go for a new one :(
– Pulse
Jun 14 '10 at 1:32
This was the solution that worked for me, for a LinkSys WRT54GL with Tomato installed. The Tomato firmware was still active afterwards, so it doesn't reset to "factory" defaults, just resets the firmware options - so if your firmware OS itself is corrupt it may not work.
– Demis
Oct 10 '17 at 17:30
add a comment |
If the router is 'bricked' you may have to resort to more drastic measures :(
First thing to try is the 30/30/30 reset:
- Disconnect all network cables, not the power cable.
- Push reset button for 30 secs.
- Without releasing reset button, disconnect power lead.
- Hold the reset button for another 30 secs.
- Replug the power lead.
- Continue holding the reset button for another 30 secs.
- Release the reset button and leave the router for about 10 secs.
- Disconnect power cord for another 10 secs and then reconnect.
With any luck that may have reset the router. If not (you don't mention which model linksys) you could take a look here:
The Wrt54g Revival Guide
There are similar routines for other models.
answered Jun 13 '10 at 5:39
PulsePulse
4,32611318
oops. It's a WRT54GC, I'll add that to the post. I tried the 30/30/30 reset. No avail. =-[
– Jack M.
Jun 13 '10 at 22:19
1
Unfortunately, it does sound like the firmware update went wrong somewhere. In reality, I think you have two options, try to short pins 15 and 16 on the flash chip (as described in the 'Revival guide) or accept that it's dead and go for a new one :(
– Pulse
Jun 14 '10 at 1:32
This was the solution that worked for me, for a LinkSys WRT54GL with Tomato installed. The Tomato firmware was still active afterwards, so it doesn't reset to "factory" defaults, just resets the firmware options - so if your firmware OS itself is corrupt it may not work.
– Demis
Oct 10 '17 at 17:30
add a comment |
If the router is 'bricked' you may have to resort to more drastic measures :(
First thing to try is the 30/30/30 reset:
- Disconnect all network cables, not the power cable.
- Push reset button for 30 secs.
- Without releasing reset button, disconnect power lead.
- Hold the reset button for another 30 secs.
- Replug the power lead.
- Continue holding the reset button for another 30 secs.
- Release the reset button and leave the router for about 10 secs.
- Disconnect power cord for another 10 secs and then reconnect.
With any luck that may have reset the router. If not (you don't mention which model linksys) you could take a look here:
The Wrt54g Revival Guide
There are similar routines for other models.
answered Jun 13 '10 at 5:39
PulsePulse
4,32611318
If the router is 'bricked' you may have to resort to more drastic measures :(
First thing to try is the 30/30/30 reset:
- Disconnect all network cables, not the power cable.
- Push reset button for 30 secs.
- Without releasing reset button, disconnect power lead.
- Hold the reset button for another 30 secs.
- Replug the power lead.
- Continue holding the reset button for another 30 secs.
- Release the reset button and leave the router for about 10 secs.
- Disconnect power cord for another 10 secs and then reconnect.
With any luck that may have reset the router. If not (you don't mention which model linksys) you could take a look here:
The Wrt54g Revival Guide
There are similar routines for other models.
answered Jun 13 '10 at 5:39
PulsePulse
4,32611318
answered Jun 13 '10 at 5:39
PulsePulse
4,32611318
answered Jun 13 '10 at 5:39
PulsePulse
4,32611318
answered Jun 13 '10 at 5:39
PulsePulse
4,32611318
4,32611318
oops. It's a WRT54GC, I'll add that to the post. I tried the 30/30/30 reset. No avail. =-[
– Jack M.
Jun 13 '10 at 22:19
1
Unfortunately, it does sound like the firmware update went wrong somewhere. In reality, I think you have two options, try to short pins 15 and 16 on the flash chip (as described in the 'Revival guide) or accept that it's dead and go for a new one :(
– Pulse
Jun 14 '10 at 1:32
This was the solution that worked for me, for a LinkSys WRT54GL with Tomato installed. The Tomato firmware was still active afterwards, so it doesn't reset to "factory" defaults, just resets the firmware options - so if your firmware OS itself is corrupt it may not work.
– Demis
Oct 10 '17 at 17:30
add a comment |
oops. It's a WRT54GC, I'll add that to the post. I tried the 30/30/30 reset. No avail. =-[
– Jack M.
Jun 13 '10 at 22:19
1
Unfortunately, it does sound like the firmware update went wrong somewhere. In reality, I think you have two options, try to short pins 15 and 16 on the flash chip (as described in the 'Revival guide) or accept that it's dead and go for a new one :(
– Pulse
Jun 14 '10 at 1:32
This was the solution that worked for me, for a LinkSys WRT54GL with Tomato installed. The Tomato firmware was still active afterwards, so it doesn't reset to "factory" defaults, just resets the firmware options - so if your firmware OS itself is corrupt it may not work.
– Demis
Oct 10 '17 at 17:30
oops. It's a WRT54GC, I'll add that to the post. I tried the 30/30/30 reset. No avail. =-[
– Jack M.
Jun 13 '10 at 22:19
oops. It's a WRT54GC, I'll add that to the post. I tried the 30/30/30 reset. No avail. =-[
– Jack M.
Jun 13 '10 at 22:19
1
1
Unfortunately, it does sound like the firmware update went wrong somewhere. In reality, I think you have two options, try to short pins 15 and 16 on the flash chip (as described in the 'Revival guide) or accept that it's dead and go for a new one :(
– Pulse
Jun 14 '10 at 1:32
Unfortunately, it does sound like the firmware update went wrong somewhere. In reality, I think you have two options, try to short pins 15 and 16 on the flash chip (as described in the 'Revival guide) or accept that it's dead and go for a new one :(
– Pulse
Jun 14 '10 at 1:32
This was the solution that worked for me, for a LinkSys WRT54GL with Tomato installed. The Tomato firmware was still active afterwards, so it doesn't reset to "factory" defaults, just resets the firmware options - so if your firmware OS itself is corrupt it may not work.
– Demis
Oct 10 '17 at 17:30
This was the solution that worked for me, for a LinkSys WRT54GL with Tomato installed. The Tomato firmware was still active afterwards, so it doesn't reset to "factory" defaults, just resets the firmware options - so if your firmware OS itself is corrupt it may not work.
– Demis
Oct 10 '17 at 17:30
add a comment |
It appears that this router is simply dead. Either the firmware I installed was corrupt, or the thing just gave up on life.
The solution is: Go buy a new router if the above doesn't work.
answered Jul 14 '10 at 21:44
Jack M.Jack M.
2,98811821
add a comment |
It appears that this router is simply dead. Either the firmware I installed was corrupt, or the thing just gave up on life.
The solution is: Go buy a new router if the above doesn't work.
answered Jul 14 '10 at 21:44
Jack M.Jack M.
2,98811821
add a comment |
It appears that this router is simply dead. Either the firmware I installed was corrupt, or the thing just gave up on life.
The solution is: Go buy a new router if the above doesn't work.
answered Jul 14 '10 at 21:44
Jack M.Jack M.
2,98811821
It appears that this router is simply dead. Either the firmware I installed was corrupt, or the thing just gave up on life.
The solution is: Go buy a new router if the above doesn't work.
answered Jul 14 '10 at 21:44
Jack M.Jack M.
2,98811821
answered Jul 14 '10 at 21:44
Jack M.Jack M.
2,98811821
answered Jul 14 '10 at 21:44
Jack M.Jack M.
2,98811821
answered Jul 14 '10 at 21:44
Jack M.Jack M.
2,98811821
2,98811821
add a comment |
add a comment |
I had a similar problem a year ago with a Linksys Router. Mine ended up just being dead. I had used it for about 8-9 months when this happened and I tried a ton of different things to get it to hardware reset with no luck. I am not saying yours is dead, just that there is a small chance that it is!
answered Jun 13 '10 at 22:49
dr.modenadr.modena
1
add a comment |
I had a similar problem a year ago with a Linksys Router. Mine ended up just being dead. I had used it for about 8-9 months when this happened and I tried a ton of different things to get it to hardware reset with no luck. I am not saying yours is dead, just that there is a small chance that it is!
answered Jun 13 '10 at 22:49
dr.modenadr.modena
1
add a comment |
I had a similar problem a year ago with a Linksys Router. Mine ended up just being dead. I had used it for about 8-9 months when this happened and I tried a ton of different things to get it to hardware reset with no luck. I am not saying yours is dead, just that there is a small chance that it is!
answered Jun 13 '10 at 22:49
dr.modenadr.modena
1
I had a similar problem a year ago with a Linksys Router. Mine ended up just being dead. I had used it for about 8-9 months when this happened and I tried a ton of different things to get it to hardware reset with no luck. I am not saying yours is dead, just that there is a small chance that it is!
answered Jun 13 '10 at 22:49
dr.modenadr.modena
1
answered Jun 13 '10 at 22:49
dr.modenadr.modena
1
answered Jun 13 '10 at 22:49
dr.modenadr.modena
1
answered Jun 13 '10 at 22:49
dr.modenadr.modena
1
1
add a comment |
add a comment |
I have a Linksys WRT 160N and the 30-30-30 rule doesn't work. What works for me is I put the box in the freezer for 10-15min. Then it powers up normally.
answered Jul 16 '14 at 12:08
drejdrej
1
2
What made you do this as a solution?
– Matthew Williams
Jul 16 '14 at 13:21
add a comment |
I have a Linksys WRT 160N and the 30-30-30 rule doesn't work. What works for me is I put the box in the freezer for 10-15min. Then it powers up normally.
answered Jul 16 '14 at 12:08
drejdrej
1
2
What made you do this as a solution?
– Matthew Williams
Jul 16 '14 at 13:21
add a comment |
I have a Linksys WRT 160N and the 30-30-30 rule doesn't work. What works for me is I put the box in the freezer for 10-15min. Then it powers up normally.
answered Jul 16 '14 at 12:08
drejdrej
1
I have a Linksys WRT 160N and the 30-30-30 rule doesn't work. What works for me is I put the box in the freezer for 10-15min. Then it powers up normally.
answered Jul 16 '14 at 12:08
drejdrej
1
answered Jul 16 '14 at 12:08
drejdrej
1
answered Jul 16 '14 at 12:08
drejdrej
1
answered Jul 16 '14 at 12:08
drejdrej
1
1
2
What made you do this as a solution?
– Matthew Williams
Jul 16 '14 at 13:21
add a comment |
2
What made you do this as a solution?
– Matthew Williams
Jul 16 '14 at 13:21
2
2
What made you do this as a solution?
– Matthew Williams
Jul 16 '14 at 13:21
What made you do this as a solution?
– Matthew Williams
Jul 16 '14 at 13:21
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Just FYI - Using TKIP instead of AES defeats the purpose of WPA2 and will drop the wireless access point into WPA/WPA2 mixed mode. iPhones have no problem using WPA2+AES.
– MDMarra
Jun 13 '10 at 22:29
I just know what I read: superuser.com/questions/75937/ipod-touch-wifi-problems
– Jack M.
Jun 14 '10 at 14:26
I had an iPhone and currently have an iPod touch, I've configured them both to work with my home network (WPA2 PSK) and work network (WPA2 Enterprise) and both work. My comment about TKIP vs. AES was that WPA2 was created to close a vulnerability in the TKIP algorithm that WPA used. This was solved by switching to AES as the standard encryption for WPA2. Using TKIP with WPA2 is the same as using WPA for all intents and purposes.
– MDMarra
Jun 14 '10 at 15:47
There are apparently ways to de-brick a router via USB and a serial cable: myopenrouter.com/article/… Didn't search for LinkSys methods, but maybe they exist.
– Demis
Oct 10 '17 at 17:33